The sad case of Meredith Kercher

[FreeGeorgeJackson]

I feel for her parents. The trial seems to have gone on for ages doenst it?
I cant see ( form what i read) how kNox will get off.

"What about AK knowing the manner of MK's death before the results of the autopsy had been made public"

several people were in the house when the door was broken down, infact it was one of the housemate's friends who knocked it down and he (and at least one other person) saw the policeman enter the room and lift the duvet away from her face.

Any of those many people could have talked about what they saw and so it's not surprising that Knox would be aware of speculation about how she died or where she was found. Infact, Knox said meredith was 'in the wardrobe' when she wasn't. She didn't know but she was aware.

Multiple assailants theory has been challenged.

The woman who heard the scream didn't come forward immediately and when she did I believe she went to the press first. Hearing people running is circumstantial evidence and can't be proven to have been the accused.

There is evidence that there was a clean up? I think there is evidence that some areas were cleaned, it is entirely possible that this was Guede.

Staged burglary, if that's what it was, could also have been Guede. Although it could have actually been a break-in.

"What about the fact that they lied about having called the police before they arrived (as confirmed by CCTV, phone records and RS himself)? Inspector Battistelli testified that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito looked ?embarrassed and surprised? when the officers found them standing outside the cottage."

not been proven beyond reasonable doubt. Teh CCTV footage shows the police car in a certain place at a certain time but doesn't prove the police got to the house when they say they did. Human error happened when logging times at least once. Battistelli said they were hugging and looked embarrassed and surprised. He also said he didn't enter the room after the door had been broken but two witnesses testified that he did.

"What about AK knowing where Meredith had been murdered (which was not the same place as where her body was found)?"

what do you mean by this?

"What about AK's blood, mixed with Meredith's being found in the bathroom they shared (none of Guede's DNA was found in that bathroom)?"

are you sure. It was AK's blood, really? I thought it was her DNA which was not unusual as she had been a frequent user of that bathroom. I think the Truejustice site are still claiming it is blood but this is not accurate.

"What about Amanda's footprints, set in Merediths' blood, found in two places in the hallway of the new wing of Meredith?s house. One print was exiting her own room, and one print was outside Meredith?s room, facing into the room. These bloody footprints were only revealed under luminol."

these were not bloody footprints. They were partial footprints some with some spot traces of meredith's blood, some without. The blood could have been transfered from the bathmat when AK left the bathroom after showering. Although none of the other people who lived there were checked against the footprints. They could also have been old footprints and Luminol reacts with several other things, not just blood.

"What about a woman?s bloody shoeprint which matched AK?s foot size, found on a pillow under Meredith?s body?"

this was a partial footprint which the prosecution say could be the same size as Amanda Knox but they were unable to prove that it was a print of any of AK's shoes and infact it had patterns the same as the other footprint which they first tried to claim was Sollecito's but then proved was Guedes because it was a match for his shoes. The sizing of this second footprint may not be accurate as it was only a partial print. Most likely it was just another print from Guede.

"What about the knide, found in RS's kitchen, with Meredith's DNA on the tip, and AK's on the handle?"

the DNA trace was not conclusive and this evidence is seriously flawed. see here for the science bit

"What about evidence that this knfe had been scrubbed with bleach? "

as far as I am aware the police said they could smell bleach and so assumed that the knife had been cleaned with bleach.

"What about the mixture of Knox?s DNA and Meredith?s blood that was found in Filomena?s room? Yet AK never claimed that she entered Filomena?s room when she checked the cottage."

did she ever go in that room, they lived together and so I am sure she did at some point.

have not answered all your questions but most of the things asked have been discussed at great length in the thread at some point.

"Amanda Knox, the American student suspected of involvement in the murder of her flatmate Meredith Kercher in Perugia, broke down and cried during questioning when asked how she could possibly know so much about Ms Kercher's "death agony" if she was not there."

Here

Will come back to your points later, DF. Spent a while trying to find a link requested by someone earlier.

"how she could possibly know so much about Ms Kercher's "death agony" if she was not there."

I know that she said 'what do you think, she fucking bled to death' but that to me seems like something anyone could have said. it's not an indication of guilt. At least two people saw the scene inside the bedroom when the policeman stepped in and removed the duvet from her face, they may very well have said something and Amanda Knox may have repeated what she heard in those discussions.

Also - that article you link to seems to have come from yet another leak at the time by the prosecution. There were so many leaks, so many things said to the press which were said to damage Knox's image and which were released unfairly for bad reasons.

"Although Ms Kercher's body was found on other side of the bed, police forensic scientists have concluded that it was dragged there, and that she was in fact murdered in front of the wardrobe by having her throat slit while on her knees. Asked how she could have known this if she was not there, Ms Knox began to cry and refused to reply. "

I think if I were innocent and someone was hounding me with questions and twisting my words then I would cry too.
Having seen the pictures of the scene I think it's fairly clear that Meredith's body was by the bed and by the wardrobe - basically inbetween the two which was witnessed by at least two people.

I feel so terribly sorry for that poor girl MK. I don't feel I can say or speculate any more really.

She did have some defensive cuts. As did Guede.

Just because the prosecution puts forward a set of maybes and possibilities doesn't mean they are correct.

The prosecution's case falls down on so many different points, their suggested motive (or motives - it changed so often) are not proven and most importantly their main DNA evidence is flawed

Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni was the leader of the forensic team from Rome that carried out all the forensic collections at Meredith?s house. She testified unequivocally about the knife. A small sample of Meredith?s DNA was found to be in a groove on the blade, and Amanda Knox?s DNA was found to be on the handle.

Dr. Stefanoni noted that there were peculiar diagonal scrapes on the knife blade, which suggested that the knife had been vigorously cleaned.

Both Dr. Renato Biondo, the head of the DNA Unit of the scientific police, and the Kerchers? own DNA expert, Professor Francesca Torricelli, provided independent confirmation that this forensic finding is accurate and reliable.

The defence teams? forensic experts are not disputing that Meredith?s DNA was on the blade of the knife. Instead they are arguing that the knife was somehow contaminated for the DNA to actually be there.

Dr Stefanoni has firmly excluded this possibility of contamination in transit or in the laboratory. She testified that there hasn?t been a single instance of contamination in her laboratory for at least the last seven years, and every precaution was taken here to ensure that different traces were not mixed.

A police officer who led a search of Sollecito?s apartment added weight to the prosecution?s assertion that the double DNA knife had been cleaned with bleach. He testified that he had been struck by ?the powerful smell of bleach?.

When Raffaele Sollecito heard that the scientific police had found Meredith?s DNA on the double DNA knife in his apartment, he did not deny the possibility of the DNA being there.

Instead he made a claim about accidentally pricking Meredith?s hand whilst cooking at his apartment. ?The fact that Meredith?s DNA is on my kitchen knife is because once, when we were all cooking together, I accidentally pricked her hand.??

However Meredith had never been to Sollecito?s apartment and so it seems Sollecito could not have accidentally pricked her hand there whilst he was cooking. In attempting to explain the presence of Meredith?s DNA on the blade, he did so in a way easily disproved and seemed to further implicate Amanda Knox and himself.

So if Meredith never went to Sollecito's home, how did her DNA come to be on the tip of a knife found there? Did Guede put it there whilst RS and AK were sleeping?

I wonder why AK mentioned the wardrobe?

Going by the photographs of the room in the press, nobody who looked in when the door was kicked in but before it was closed again, & who might have mentioned the scene afterwards, would have considered the wardrobe part of that scene.

"I know that she said 'what do you think, she fucking bled to death' but that to me seems like something anyone could have said. it's not an indication of guilt. At least two people saw the scene inside the bedroom when the policeman stepped in and removed the duvet from her face, they may very well have said something and Amanda Knox may have repeated what she heard in those discussions."

How did AK know that she bled to death (rather than was stabbed, for example)?

She didn't say it as a supposition "there was so much blood, I suppose she must have bled to death", but as an assertion.

It doesn't sound like the way anyone I know would talk about the death of a so-called friend.

Where is the evidence to support the idea that she saw or heard anything from the policemen who first discovered Meredith? Rememeber also that AK was not very fluent in Italian at this time.

To be honest, all these protestations of Knox's innocence (but never of Sollecito's or Guede's, funnily enough) remind me of the bit in life of Brian "What did the Romans do for us?"

So apart from the lies, the false alibis, the DNA on the murder weapon, the footprints set in blood, the clean up, the faked burglary, the DNA on the bra, the moved body, the autopsy findings, the failure to call the police, the false accusation, the warm washing machine..... what evidence is there to suggest Knox is guilty?

All of these things have been covered at length already. I don't have the energy to repeat myself again. What is written in the papers in not all TRUE. Try looking at one of the many sites where the evidence has been discussed in a scientific manner. There are many, many links in this thread.

It is pointless to continue in this vein. We need to wait for more info ie the official report from the trial.

"So if Meredith never went to Sollecito's home, how did her DNA come to be on the tip of a knife found there? Did Guede put it there whilst RS and AK were sleeping?"

the DNA ecidence is not strong enough here again

and here

Ultimately no one has posted anything here in this thread which persuades me that the DNA evidence presented by the prosecution can prove Knox and Sollecito guilty of any crime.

"Where is the evidence to support the idea that she saw or heard anything from the policemen who first discovered Meredith? Rememeber also that AK was not very fluent in Italian at this time."

Where is the evidence to prove that she didn't hear it from teh policeman or from one of the two people who saw that policeman enter the room and saw him lift the duvet..

"To be honest, all these protestations of Knox's innocence (but never of Sollecito's or Guede's, funnily enough) remind me of the bit in life of Brian "What did the Romans do for us?""

I do not on any level think that Guede is innocent.

A great deal has been said about Sollecito in this thread, particularly RE the collection and contamination of the bra clasp and the footprint. It's odd that you should think otherwise...

Though I agree with you that many people here do, for some reason, want to make it all about Knox. The first page of this thread alone makes this abundantly clear.

"It's amazing that Knox has managed to make this all about her, not about Meredith." Um Knox is/was on trial! She is facing 26 years in prison. Of course it is about her!

Meredith, sadly, is dead and nothing anyone can say or do will change that.

The point is that Amanda Knox's family know she is innocent and so for them, unfortunately, it is all about Knox. As I am sure for the Sollecito's it is all about him.

What else would you really expect her family to do. I believe that Knox's family have tried to be respectful towards the kerchers while fighting for the release of innocent people.

Have the Knox or Sollecito families said outright that they believe their children have been framed by the Italian police? I am pretty certain that the Defence's case was about contamination of evidence rather than deliberate framing.

I have never said that there was intent to frame her. She was questioned originally then an a hypothesis of what happened was drawn up. Unfortunatley the forensic evidence actually pointed in a totally different direction ie to Guede.

At that point they SHOULD have started again. What is the evidence telling us? What is Guede telling us?

Guede never mentioned AK and RS being present initially. Only much,much later when they were in custody. His story was that he was on the toilet and saw an Italian guy rush past, one who told him that he would be blamed because he was black.

Now Guede is the ONLY one scientifically proven to have been present in that room. He accepted the fast track trial. Anything he says now can not be relied upon. He will probably base his appeal on the fact that the other two did it!

"The point is that Amanda Knox's family know she is innocent"

How do they know this? They might believe she is innocent (what parent wouldn't?) but they can't possibly know

"How do they know this? They might believe she is innocent (what parent wouldn't?) but they can't possibly know"

fair enough. They Believe she is innocent, what else would you expect them to do?

I mean, come on, how many parents here if they really believed and were convinced of their child's innocent would just walk away.

Considering the fact that the evidence just doesn't prove her or Sollecito guilty is it that difficult to believe that their families would pull out all the stops to get them released? isn't it what you would do?

"I have never said that there was intent to frame her. "

sorry - I was referring to the article posted by someone else, not you.

"The Kercher family are probably even more desperate on behalf of their daughter who was so horrifically murdered, but they didn't conduct a media blitz to sway the trial and public opinion."

they didn't really need to did they!

"What sort of people hire a PR firm when someone in their family is charged with murder? It's astonishing."

If I thought I needed it, I would.

It's very sad that whenever you google anything to do with this case, various pictures of Meredith inevitably pop up; what a beautiful, vibrant, happy-looking girl she was .

(And she was the youngest in the family - somehow that makes it even sadder)