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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

"on mumsnet this week" in the Mail. Is this a new thing

1009 replies

jujumaman · 13/08/2009 10:32

Came across this this morning when I should have been working

Is this a new weekly rip-off by the Mail? Or has it been going on for months and I'm behind the times as usual

I'm not quite as virulently anti the Mail as mnetters, find it silly rather than the end of civilisation as we know it. But still ...

OP posts:
Nancy66 · 13/08/2009 16:21

but she's been on telly talking about it twice in the past week....

quoteTHISyafuckers · 13/08/2009 16:25

How did they get the photo of her and her dd though?

islandofsodor · 13/08/2009 16:28

I don't know. I assumed they were maybe photos taken before.

MOst of the original thread was deleted before I saw it, so I only saw the article and statement.

MaggieBelleVirgo · 13/08/2009 16:28

So who is the daily mail mumsnetter journo then?!?! name her name her.. even just a screen name please!

Mamazon, I know the DM does print a load of lazy annoying articles, but it's really blinkered to blanket label everybody who ever picks it up as a bigot.. I'm not. I'm extremely liberal in my views.

But the same way I eat chocolate and crisps sometimes, I can flick through the dm and read about moisturisers and tights and handbags and so on.....

Nancy66 · 13/08/2009 16:31

islandofsodor - considering the photos are very much posed for and taken by a Telegraph staff photographer, i think it's incredibly unlikely that she appeared in the paper without knowing.

quoteTHISyafuckers · 13/08/2009 16:31

ah yes, didn't see she'd been featured before. Poor woman, I must admit, when I saw the original link, I remember thinking ''ok, so you could talk about the 'issue' but to have yourself (and your dd in background) pictured is at best, erm, unwise. At worst, downright cruel!''

quoteTHISyafuckers · 13/08/2009 16:32

But pix just remain in a picture 'bank', cross referenced by names etc.
Pictures are often shared accross different news titles.

JustineMumsnet · 13/08/2009 16:36

Ok so am back - sorry for absence vonsudenfed - took me old mam out to lunch, but I should no by now that you should never post on a thread like this and leave (although I do just have to pop out again in a min to go blackberry picking so apologies in advance but I'll be back later on.)

Anyway this is a very interesting and pertinent discussion. Thanks to all for their contributions.

A few things to clarify. First there is certainly no ill-will between the journalist writing this item and MN - quite the contrary. Yes she was cross with us at one point a few years back for some deleting I did during quite a heated discussion and left quite publicly but she returned pretty swiftly with a new name and has been around a lot since. So there is no reason to believe she has anything but honourable intentions re the column. She has contributed immensely to MN over the years.

She has also confirmed that no scenarios should be identifiable in real life from the
column (which obviously isn't the case with Mumsnet and our friend Google!). And said she/DM would remove any clearly idenifying facts (eg professions, specific details).

Second, as has been pointed out by Rusty, we cannot stop things being reproduced from here under the Fair Use laws. That does not mean folks can reproduce great tracts in the form of a book (only we can do that ) but it does mean you can be quoted and there's nothing we can do to stop it. (Of course we always hope you'll be quoted properly and not misquoted but sadly it doesn't always happen). We do obviously all have nicknames and allow unlimited namechanges so that anyone who's worried about being identified to friends and family (or others) can cover their tracks.

We always advise that you shouldn't put things on here that identify you and that you wouldn't want to be available to the wider world. Mumsnet is an open forum, searchable on Google - the audience therefore is considerably bigger than the Daily Mail's and everything you write is out there for public consumption. It's very easy to think of MN as club of sympathetic, likeminded folk - which in many ways it is - but Google isn't and if you put things on MN they are, quite simply accessible to every Tom, Dick and disgusted DM reader of Tunbridge Wells.

Had the Mail come to us and asked about this particular venture we would have had somewhat mixed feelings and would have undoubtedly run it by Mumsnetters first. Tbh though some of that's because it's the Mail, rather than the concept of MN being quoted, as we share some of your concerns about association with a paper that seems to contain so much anti-woman stuff.

We do though run a free site here. We turn down more advertising than we take and we have no money left over after running costs for publicity/advertising. We need to keep attracting folk to the site to keep it viable. Ask yourself how you found Mumsnet and many of you will have come via some kind of newspaper article or coverage.

Plus we genuinely believe the advice and support available here should be available to as many folk as possible.

However, we accept all the very valid points about the sensitive nature of some of the information posted here. Tech is currently working on private groups to be set up around particular subject areas/communities - eg SN, bereavement, miscarriage, lone parents etc

These areas will be be password protected and should be ready for use in a couple of months. If they work out hopefully it will suit better some of you who feel uncomfortable about posting on a public forum but still allow to MN. We'll keep you posted on our progress.

Do, of course, continue to let us know your thoughts.

MaggieBelleVirgo · 13/08/2009 16:42

Wow. that's kind of disingenuous of mumsnet towers if you don't mind me saying so..

WHY would anybody google maggiebellevirgo?!!? IF, they hadn't come across that name already here!!!!!??????

OUr screen names are mostly kind of quirky. You have to know what you're looking for before you can google it.

On the other hand, if it jumps out at you in a paper......... (or forum, yeah) then you might recognise it.

jujumaman · 13/08/2009 16:44

DP, damn, you're good!

Not.

Still looking forward to your tv review contribution

It sounds to me as if the babyworld lady posed for a different photo for a different article and the Telegraph then dug it out of the archive to illustrate this. Or - more charitable explanation - which I hope is true, she wanted to be in the Telegraph but not the Mail, in which case she was v naive

OP posts:
StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail · 13/08/2009 16:45

Thanks Justine
You say "She has also confirmed that no scenarios should be identifiable in real life from the
column (which obviously isn't the case with Mumsnet and our friend Google!). And said she/DM would remove any clearly idenifying facts (eg professions, specific details)." I can believe that is the intention but how well it will work is still to be seen. After all "identifiable details" aren't always obvious.

I do take your point though about this being an open forum, I suppose an analogy would be if you're in a shopping centre talking to a friend in a normal / loud voice - everyone around can hear what you're saying. that doesn't mean you'd be entirely comfortable about them being repeated over the tannoy, with "the heavily pregnant woman in the Madonna T shirt eating the Cadbury's dairy milk" to identify you. None of it a secret, but still...

MaggieBelleVirgo · 13/08/2009 16:46

Mumsnet has become very profit-orientated lately, which is entirely normal for a business!, but the speed mn has gone from being a chatty little forum to a 'tout your wares to all and sundry business' is really noticeable change of direction.

all got shares I hope???

JustineMumsnet · 13/08/2009 16:46

No they wouldn't Google your name but the might Google what you're discussing - our most popular search term is... wait for it... smelly washing machine. And then who knows what they'll find...

DailyMailCanLickMyBalls · 13/08/2009 16:47

It just makes you want to have nothing to do with the press at all.

Does anybody know, if MNHQ weren't happy about threads from here being reproduced in other media, do they have a leg to stand on about it?

I just realised something with Googling around, and apologies if someone else has already pointed it out: the Daily Mail piece last week about MNers on fake tan for kids wasn't even lifted from here directly. It appeared in the Independent in June.

So journalism goes like this:

  1. normal people post on forums about stuff
  2. broadsheet reproduces it amongst a huge chunk of other threads - makes for really poor article
  3. ex Mumsnetter, now at tabloid, copies the broadsheet as clearly has no original ideas
  4. forum members despair of the world and wonder how they came to be so fascinating and news-worthy.
StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail · 13/08/2009 16:47

for example, I regularly say on here I work for the NHS. I also on other threads and for different reasons talk about the county I live in and the area of work I'm in. Putting all those together you could figure out who I am.

BitOfFun · 13/08/2009 16:48

I think people are over-estimating how nosy people are too tbh. I just can't see legions of Mail readers cyber-stalking anyone.

MaggieBelleVirgo · 13/08/2009 16:49

Yes stealth... being exposed in a national paper than recognised on a forum, is also more cringeworthy, even if the admitssion/secret/info is exactly the same.

It's the muppet-factor of being chit-chat-gossip fodder in a paper

It is worse.

Also, supposing I did internet dating, well anybody I met there would also be doing internet dateing, so i wouldn't mind them knowing obviously. (can't think of a better example)... but I wouldn't want it in the paper.

JustineMumsnet · 13/08/2009 16:51

disingenuous - where have i heard that before.
MaggieBelleVirgo that's quite hurtful actually - we specifically don't chase profits willy nilly and never had - that's why we turn down so much advertising. We do however, now, have quite a lot of bills that need to be paid - rent, staff who have mortgages to pay etc. It's true we didn't used to because Me, Carrie Steven and Rachel worked for quite a long time without paying ourselves.

MaggieBelleVirgo · 13/08/2009 16:54

seriously??? you're not building up your members and then your advertising so you can sell???

FAQtothefuture · 13/08/2009 16:55

so Mumsnet has more "readers" than the DM does??? And it's more likely that someone will recognise you on Mumsnet rather than in/on the DM??

Not so sure about that

did you know that a current google search for "sacked for being pregnant" shows the DM link........I gave up on the 5th page of results looking for a link from MN (which I admit is unusual)

Of course add "mumsnet" to the search and it's right up there (under the DM link ).

vonsudenfedhatespauldacre · 13/08/2009 16:56

Am glad to hear that there will be secure sites, I think that makes a bit of a difference.

But - as I keep saying - there is a big difference between posting an identifiable scenario on here and in the DM in terms of being found.

I'll take my own example. I've posted on here a number of times about problems with my neighbour and her dog barking in the night. If she were to google that she would be pretty hard pressed to turn up me moaning about her and the dog at 3am. In fact I'd like to see the combination of words that she'd need to get it on anything but the 200th page. But if it turned up in the Daily Mail, she's see it, she'd come to MN and look for me. Not the same at all in my book. And if we take all of the details of scenarios out, then it's not very interesting at all - and hard to post in response. So I think Ms Leah Hardy should stick to debates - like fake tan for kids - rather than personal situations. Otherwise one unfortunate side effect is that there won't be many interesting articles to write from.

BitOfFun · 13/08/2009 16:58

Maggie

JustineMumsnet · 13/08/2009 16:59

Didn't say that FAQ, I said that more folks have access to MN via Google than read the Daily Mail. People of our generation (apologies if you're a much younger generation) tend to view being in a newspaper as much more important than being on a website but I'm not sure our kids will see it that way (if newspapers indeed even still exist)

whomovedmychocolate · 13/08/2009 17:01

Right. Given this situation, I'm thinking the moldies might not be such a bad idea after all

JustineMumsnet · 13/08/2009 17:02

Oh bugger you've revealed our secret plan Maggie - and there were we hoping the Daily Mail might buy us!

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