Please uncover your face-Matthew Parrish

[mrsruffallo]

Interesting article here
I have noticed that there are more women covering up in the last few years.
Any opinions?

"The French are trying to claw back some autonomy and reasserting a liberalist culture."

France is not really a liberal culture, though. It is a highly centralised country and the French are able to cope with a degree of authoritarianism/egalitariasm that is anathema to the British.

The state machine has largely treated religion(s) as retrograde cultures that have no place within modern, forward-thinking education.

Interesting what President Obahma said today:

Muslim Women's Rights

"He says a woman who chooses to cover her hair for religious reasons or chooses traditional roles is no less equal.
world.

Obama says he believes women who are denied an education are denied equality. "

Notice he uses words like 'choice', 'rights', 'equality', 'education'. Pretty much sums up the issues and concerns addressed in a lot of posts on all sides of this thread.

Yeah, Obama might be also just about to sell Israel down the river

interesting song
i was sent this as a link, and it just describes it all beautifully. just ignore the fact that it is rap, i personally hate rap.

I'll confess I haven't read all the posts - but has anyone brought up Jewish men who are brought up to wear certain clothes and have a beard? Or priests who can choose to wear a dog-collar on not?

I was talking to the new vicar at church and he says it is canon law that ministers can't have a beard or a moustache - they have to have both... Does anyone think that diminishes their human rights?

Is it just because the people wearing burkas are women? Or is it because they are Muslim? I'm asking as I honestly can't see how the choice that a woman who lives across the road from you (for example) makes about wearing a burka, or a head scarf or nothing can impact your life...

PSL, for me it's the fact that the women have to cover up but the men don't. That's what I find depressing.

It has no impact on me or my life at all, but I'm interested in the world around me and I notice this kind of thing.

I don't like to see anybody physically hampered by any religious requirement be it beards etc or covering up. It's up to them of course but it makes me think, thank god (!!) I wasn't brought up with any prescriptive religion - I can just do whatever I like.

But the women don't have to cover up. It's their choice... OK, some may have strict families that force them, but that can happen in any religion/culture.

And my point above was that in any religion there are requirements that should be observed.

I could tell you what worries me most about female choices, is the pressure felt by young girls as they grow up to compete on such a superficial level as their looks, body size and shape. To know that no matter what their level of intelligence, the most valuable thing about them is beauty and how perfect and thin their bodies are. They must flutter their eyelashes and learn how to flirt with the male sex from a young age if they wish to have any kind of success.
Then any female that manages to succeed must face discrimination of all kinds in the work place, and the ones that don't are damn lucky.

Yes, dress prescriptions for men have been mentioned PorksaladLucie.

It's not the actual dress that diminishes their human rights. The dress is only part of it - the most visible part of it. All religions/clubs have rules and customs that distinguish their members from non-members. That's not what was at issue here.

"But the women don't have to cover up. It's their choice" It's been said already that women who can choose are not the target audience here. It's the ones who cannot - and they are actually the majority too. It doesn't matter what religion/culture it is in - if it oppresses their women to the extent that Islam does aroud the world, then that is it issue.

Islamic countries abstained from signing the UN declaration of human rights because it would then be duty bound to offer it's women (and men) eqwuality in the law. That it doesn;t sign it is the most obvious evidence avaibale that no matter how much people go on about Allah being a merciful god, his modern day representatives are all about maintaining power at any cost - mostly the cost of human misery.

Deeeja - Men and women compete with each other for other men and women - they always have and they always will. Doing it on looks/grooming is the most benign way to do it, believe me.

But it is the value that is placed on looks that bother me so much, that it should over-ride every other quality possessed by the human being. That is oppressive imo.

Most people aren't that shallow though, Deeja.
I don't think that looks are placed above all by most people

Well so it bothers you. It bothers us all as we have babies and get older. It's not oppressive, it's just life. Sometimes life feels oppressive but that doesn;t mean there is any consiopracy.

The only way to stop people being sexually motivated is to kill everyone.

Beauty is not just used to compete for other men and women, in this society sex is involved in almost every transaction, in every social/economic/political/acedemic arena, That is distasteful.

Sex is the engine of life Deeeja.

I know that not everyone operates like that in general, but it is always pushed to the forefront, accepted as some sort of ideal, something that people should aim for.

Sex should not be the engine of life, it should only drive reproduction/relationships, it should not leave a shadow over every arena in society

Pushed by who?
In real life, most people just don't think like that.
It's good to be fit and healthy, but extreme body obsession is not the norm

Again, whose life has sex as the driving force?
I would disagree completely about it only being for reproduction purposes, it can be just for fun too

What is considered fit and healthy?
What is the ideal type to aspire to? Read any young girl's/womens/mens/ publication, and it will be about attracting a mate, getting some sort of sexual feedback. As people age, it is about staying youthful for as long as possible. That should not be on the same level as being fit and healthy

Yes, I did say for reproduction and relationships, fun being part of that relationship. What I mean is that the way the woman looks should not be the most important aspect of her, hence there really can not be any valid arguement against any woman covering up or not. Nor should the idea prevale that it is better on any level for the woman to be not covered rather than covered

ahem, prevail

if sex did not drive life we would be extinct. Bottom line.

Your choice. Either you work with it or against it.

This is getting tiresome, yes sex in relationships and reproduction, hence no extinction. Sigh!
No to sex and looks being the most important aspect of human existence and participation in all domains.
Women should not be judged on the way they present themselves, so there should be no arguement against women covering themselves up, not in a rational world. A woman's looks should only mater to her mate, not her boss/colleagues/fellow students/ lecturers/ men walking down the street/ builders/ etcetra.

So why cover your face in a society that doesn't?

Is it to indicate that you want no active part in that society?

Do you really think that your desirability is being considered every time your face is shown?

I admit to being a bit puzzled by niqab-wearing young ( almost always young) women round here who have flashy high heels, ankle bracelets and fashionable trousers on show. Do they want to be noticed or not?