Please uncover your face-Matthew Parrish

[mrsruffallo]

Interesting article here
I have noticed that there are more women covering up in the last few years.
Any opinions?

Face covering makes me very uncomfortable. If the Muslims who say 'it's not a religious requirement, it's cultural' are right, why do other Muslims say 'it's about showing your commitment to your religion'? Both cannot be right, can they?

It's unnatural in our culture and odd in biological terms, too. We 'read' people's faces. There are whole areas of the brain devoted to working out what someone else's facial expressions mean.

OK, I can't argue with 'women have the right to dress how they like' but it does make people uncomfortable and if you choose to do it, you have to realise that it will have that effect. Also wonder how many people do it out of free choice, or whether fear of disapproval from their family, friends and neighbours plays a part.

I wouldn't be happy about talking to someone wearing a full-face crash helmet or a balaclava, either, btw.

On his other beef, disagree about women being more likely to hog seats on public transport. IMO the real problem is the way men insist on sitting with their legs splayed wide, taking up far more than one seat's worth of leg room. Do their balls really need that much air, or do they think it impresses anyone?

(Was at a concert last week and noticed even the musicians were doing it. I was at the front, and in an idle moment realised every single male strings player had the legs akimbo I am a MAN don't you know pose.)

As for it being an Afghan thing pre-Taliban, there is plenty of footage of Kabul in the 60s and 70s where the women on the streets are wearing miniskirts and no headscarves, let alone the burkha. Obviously capital cities are often different to the countryside, but still.

it's about anything BUT freedom, surely?

but yappy, it's the shite he spouts forth that i find unsoothing.
ie. encouraging people to tie up string across country lanes to make cyclists fall off their bikes.

The best thing to do is ignore it.
It's such a ridiculously stupid habit anyway-primarily done for attention.

it bothers me because of everything it represents.

you can't on the one hand object to how some extremist cultures treat women - not being able to drive, not being allowed out unaccompanied, being put to death for adultery, being stoned for adultery - and then say that an extreme form of dress is ok - it isn't it represents oppression and stems from extremism.

Both are equally offensive Riven.
However we are lucky to live in a society that broadly speaking, allows people to dress as they wish. If some overdo it by wearing too much or too little, that is thier prerogative.

So if you moved to Yap, in Micronesia, would you feel completely comfortable going around with your tits out?

That's the local dress for women.

I can't say I think burquas/niqabs are the emblem of the liberated sisterhood, but as long as they're not compulsory, I don't see how it affects me. What I can see is that women who have been brought up in a culture where they're standard would feel as uncomfortable without them as I would without my shirt in Yap.

I don't think this issue is ever really too far away from Islamophobia.

If swine flu takes hold and everyone on the tube starts wearing face masks (e.g. Hong Kong during SARS), are you going to find it quite so offensive not to be able to see people's faces?

the fact that so many more women seem to wear them now than did 20 or 30 years ago indicates it's nothing to do with culture or tradition. Muslim women have always been required to dress modestly - but the veil is a sick twist on this and usually imposed by men.

it also doesn't help to improve the incredibly negative few of westerm women that many muslim men have

You could equally well argue that British female tourists should stop exposing so much flesh when on holiday in more modest countries (which is pretty much everywhere in other words).

Although certainly many British tourists do try and cover up more in these countries, not because they want to, but out of respect.

Being gay is possibly culturally unacceptable in Damascus too, Mr P. Should people hide / suppress their sexuality then?

Just to clarify: it is only face covering I object to not head scarves.

I'm talking about muslim men who have been brought up here - i've noticed a very unpleasant shift in the last few years in attitudes towards western women.

Actually, when we lived briefly in an area with a largely Muslim population, my teenage sister was abused by men in the street on several occasions for being 'immodest' - wearing her school uniform, FFS! Which consisted of a dark brown blazer, dark brown jumper, tartan kilt and long socks - maybe it was her knees they objected to?

I am NOT saying 'all' Muslim men are louts or misogynists or even many. But there clearly are at least a handful who have a real problem with women and choose to attack those who do not conform to some standard of dress men impose.

Luckily, the one man who decided shouting and spitting wasn't enough, and tried to hit her, chose the day when our dog had escaped. Dog must have heard my sister scream, because he came racing round the corner and knocked the tosser to the ground.

I do hope that particular thug thought twice about attacking a woman ever again.

Nancy, you are bothered about what it represents - to you - but you are not being asked to wear it! What is important here is what it means to the people who wish to wear it.

" just don't think it has a place in a modern, equal and civilised society." if society is equal and civilised as you say then surely that encompases women who chooses to wear a face covering not excludes them? How is a society modern, equal or anything else if one person or people can say ooh no, you can't wear that, tis wrong. It is certainly not a civilised approach IMO.

In cases where someone has been forced, then yes, they deserve something better but I would be very surprised if people who have been forced would say "well I don't like it so no-one should wear it, even if they want to". Part of civilisation is the right to choose, like it or lump it I am afraid.

I too find the burka offensive and it also saddens me greatly seeing small girls trussed-up in headscarves in this lovely weather (surely this is not through choice).

Bonneville, why is it surely not through choice? Because you think it is too hot to wear it? Have you ever bothered to ask any of the people wearing them if they want to wear them or not?

I would love to know how many women who wear it truly do it out of choice.

Would you choose to wear something ugly? Something that was hot and uncomfortable? Something that made people stare at you? Made people abuse you? Made children frightened? Affected your vision and made the citizens of the country you had made your home uncomfortable?

Agree with Edam, some very reasoned points.

Nobody has to like it: I don't like it. My understanding (maybe quite poor on this) is that it is not religious but cultural.

Am not Muslim but I like Islam, what little I know about it, the Five Pillars and so on. But I can't stand the covering of women by decree.

However -- we are free to wear what we want and it should stay that way.

Oh FGS, Judge much???

How on earth someone can come up with those arguments in the same thread as talking up a "civilised" society is beyond me.

Un-flamin-real.