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Responsibility to let girls be tom boys...

244 replies

Judy1234 · 29/05/2009 10:27

Do you dress your girls in pink? Expect them to be housewives? Given then a role model at home of mother home 24/7 doing dull domestic stuff, father hardly there? or do you encourage them in their adventurousness, let them ride, ski, fight, climb trees? Would you steer them away from a stereotyped party dress and read them stories where girls can be brave rather than simper?

........
From The Times
May 29, 2009
The pernicious pinkification of little girls
Find the link between (a) princess costumes (b) short hair and (c) the number of women graduates in maths and science
Antonia Senior

Where have all the pirate queens gone? Where are the cowgirls and the Supergirls? Today's fancy dress parties divide strictly on gender lines. The boys' side holds a handful of Batmans, a sprinkling of Spider-Mans, some soldiers and the odd cowboy. And on the girls' side, ten identikit princesses, swathed in pink, encrusted with fake crystals.

Is this, then, the summit of their ambition, the ultimate fantasy wish of modern girlhood - to be a princess? A role that can be inherited along with genetic mutations from generations of inbreeding. You can work for the role, it is true. Be pretty enough, my darling girl child, and mute enough, and bland enough, and you too could marry a prince. Because every girl's dream should be to lead a life of buffed and pedicured leisure, courtesy of a balding, chinless aristocrat, Whisper it, but the frog, as long as he's funny and kind, would have been the better bet.

There is an alternative to being a princess, a second costume beloved of today's girls. They shun the Ice Queens and the Elven warriors, ignore Artemis, the huntress, and Athena, the wise. Instead they celebrate the Fairy; three inches of cute, winged blondeness, dressed, inevitably, in pink.

This creeping pinkification of girlhood is ubiquitous. Toys and clothes have split down gender lines. It is impossible to buy a gender- neutral bike any more. Bikes come in blue, or in pink; as do baby walkers, and mini-keyboards, and any other toy that might once have been - imagine it! - purple or green.
Background

  • Staff baffled by fuss over bed called Lolita

  • Hollywood goes girly

  • Katie Price: a feminist icon of our times?

  • Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen and his daughter Cecile

Girls' jeans come with butterflies and hearts stitched on every spare centimetre of fabric. T-shirts carry cute slogans - ?Cherry cute! Hello Kitty?. Swimming costumes are girdled with frills. Next time you are in the park, try to spot a prepubescent girl with short hair, or one wearing trousers. Long hair, dresses and pink; it's Amish meets Disney out there.

The triumph of this pink and cutesy ideal of girlhood is grim for more than aesthetic reasons. A report published this week by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) highlighted the differences between 15-year-old girls and boys' attitudes to learning. Even though girls graduate from senior school in greater numbers than boys across the OECD countries, girls lag behind in key areas. Boys outperform girls in maths in all but eight countries. In most OECD countries, girls and boys perform equally well in science. But in six countries, boys achieve significantly better results. Top of this list is the United Kingdom.

There is a correlation between attitudes to academic subjects and performance. In the UK, girls don't do numbers. And girls definitely don't do science. Angel Gurría, the OECD's secretary-general, argues that we are complacent about gender stereotyping and that the idea that boys don't do reading and girls don't do maths persists.

These girls will one day grow up. Even though the number of women at university is increasing rapidly, they are not narrowing the gap in science, maths and computer science. As graduates then, they leave the lucrative jobs in the City, in laboratories and in computers to the boys. Armed with liberal arts degrees - a useful accoutrement in the marriage market, like a little French and dancing once were - they may marry their prince after a few years pretending to have a career at an auction house. But happy ever after is a lie. Divorce statistics suggest he is likely to leave for a pinker, younger version.

The modern, Western world has emancipated women and made breadwinners out of them. Yet we are imprisoning our little girls in pink straitjackets, and then acting surprised later when their academic ambitions fail to outshine their accessories. Our girls' view of the world is pink-tinted partly because of the supply of cheap goods. When hand-me-downs ruled, parents would be more cautious. Now that clothes and toys are imported and cheap, it matters less if you buy all pink for your first-born, and replace it all with blue when a boy arrives. A T-shirt is expendable when it cost £5 in the shop, and pennies to make in a sweatshop employing the quick, cheap fingers of foreign children.

But the pinking process would not be happening without demand from the girls themselves and their parents. Put a gaggle of girls in a nursery and they will copy each other. Throw into the mix the culturally overbearing world of Disney, add a sprinkle of fashion fairy dust, and a roomful of princesses is born. For a vision of what this looks like, visit disney.go.com/princess/#/home. All the Disney princesses are there in a terrifying tableau of simpering, gurning girlishness. Why are all these princesses, the apotheoses of modern girlhood, clasping their hands together in front of them, in an expression of coy submissiveness?

If peer pressure is one driver of demand, the other must come from the parents. Perhaps this is a backlash against the Seventies, when boys called Orlando were forced to play with dolls, and girls wore trousers. Feminist theory has developed since then, recognising that there are differences between the sexes. But this seems to have mutated into an insistence that we emphasise the differences. If a girl old enough to choose begs to dress as a princess, it would be dogmatic to refuse. But why encourage this inanity in babies and toddlers too young to care?

The mothers of these girls, the careless inheritors of the equality hard won by their own mothers and grandmothers, are complicit in this pinking up of girlhood. Why? These women have themselves bestridden the world of work like colossi. Yet they are raising a generation of girls who, when confronted by a periodic table or a quadratic equation, are fit only to curl hair coyly round fingers, and say, in an affected lisp: ?Why are we bothering our pretty little heads about any of this??

OP posts:
Podrick · 29/05/2009 19:30

I am a fan of the Swedish kids clothes shop Polarn O Pyret because it sells largely unisex clothes for kids. So you can hand them down in your family even if you have different sexes.

In Sweden the boys even wear the tunics/dresses with leggings.

Huge numbers of parents still insist on letting their children play only with gender stereotype toys. Buying a trainset for your daughter or a doll for your son is still a complete no no in numerous households. I don't know how we deal with this as a society tbh - well actually I think I do - I think the media is hugely influential and is currently working against equality and equal opportunities for children.

ahundredtimes · 29/05/2009 19:49

But Custy isn't she just talking about women here? I don't think it's rose-tinted glasses to suggest that women's lives have changed hugely over what two, three generations, and that some women oversaw that change.( Perhaps it's the middle-class women who have mostly benefited though?)

She's not writing about class politics, but about how girls are currently consciously sold to and at and that the focus of all that marketing is exclusively pink and princessy - in a way we definitely weren't sold to, and that possibly your 16 y-o dd wasn't either. The message of that marketing is a bit warped, and it seems good and sensible to acknowledge that.

mrswill · 29/05/2009 19:58

Women dreading having a baby girl because they may want to wear pink and be girlie.... really disgusting, please grow up, there are women who would love a baby, any baby. As long as a child is happy, who cares what and which colour they wear, although you will have a job searching for another colour than pink for a girl fortunately i love it I am a girlie girl and always have been, and that has never stood in the way of an education and career, the article is bollocks. There are gender differences ingrained in us, and boys and girls should be left to decide what their interested in, not have anything forced upon them whether it be pink sparkle or playing football.

Catitainahatita · 29/05/2009 20:21

I'm currently pg with a little girl and have been giving the whole thing much thought.

I think choice is the operative word here. There is nothing wrong with dressing in pink, dressing up as a little princess etc etc, if there is always the choice to dress up as an astronaut/train driver/physics professor. This applies in my opinion to boys and girls. We impose gender roles on our children if we (or society around them) deprives them of their choice.

I have always thought that feminism and women's lib was precisely fought for this element of choice. If you want to be a SAHM or a WM fine, if you want to be a WD or SAHD fine. But no-one should cricise you for your choice.

The problem as I see it is that this choice still does not exist: not for girls and not for boys. On a banal every day level, you see it every day in clothes shops, as has been mentioned by many posters. Or it is ever present in our media in which a mother, whether she is SAH or not can not do anything right and is opem season for all types of criticism whatever she does. Or when a man wants to change a nappy only to discover that the changing area is in the women's loo or called a "mother and baby room".

I want my new dd to be and do whatever it is that best suits her and she would like to do. I would like her to have choices and not feel the need to conform.

This however could prove to be easier to say than do.

ahundredtimes · 29/05/2009 20:29

I think you're missing the point Mrs Will tbh. It's not just about the colour pink - and it's certainly not disgusting to look with some alarm at what the market is telling you your future daughter should like, and to question that or for it to appear alarming. it's an okay thing to say.

The conversation is about what you said at the end - that it's hard to find anything that isn't pink. It's fine that you love pink - but not fine that it is sold in this exclusive and limiting way, because it sends weird messages to our children imo.

Parents just have to intercept those messages and find the right and sensible balance, which no doubt most do.

teafortwo · 29/05/2009 20:31

Hmmm....

Actually....

I think we shouldn't be worrying too much about our girls to be honest.

A few years ago I conducted an interesting study on how girls and boys play in school playgrounds.

It was astounding how many different games girls were playing. Being a girl gave them flexibility to really be creative and do as they pleased. They were playing sports, make belief, quiet games, rough games and everything inbetween. A few played football with the boys.

The boys - in the playground I conducted my main research in either played football or hung around the edges obviously quite rejected by the other boys.

On-top of this I now have experience with raising my own girl....

My dds favourite t-shirt is green and has a dinosaur on it. No-one has ever mentioned to me that it is a boys t-shirt or that she shouldn't wear it. Sometimes she wears it with her fairy skirt - it looks cool.

A dear friend of mine bought her son aged two a pair of stripped socks and she got pulled to pieces by the other Mums in 'our gang' because one of the stripes was.... pink! "He will be gay" and "Does your husband know?" Were said without a tongue anywhere near a cheek!

Another mother I know bought her son a doll and she was telling me how upset she was because she had strangers stop her in the street to ask her why her son has a doll? I said "Well no-ones ever done that to me and my dd? That is really weird!" And then I realised - it wasn't that they disapproved of dolls full stop - it was the fact a boy had a doll!!!! Seriously it took a while for me to catch on to what she was saying and I was completely shocked!

Our social image of masculinity is far more concerning than our image of femininity which is constantly evolving, developing and growing. If my dd wanted to be a mechanic, printer, join the army etc I feel she would fit in socially much more easily than if my cousin's son announced that he wished to be a hairdresser, beautician or Nanny.

I think we should let the girls who want to wear princess outfits bomb around in princess outfits - what we mustn't forget is to let boys who want to do it too join in.

chipmonkey · 29/05/2009 20:42

As the Mum of 4 boys, I have to say that to me, boys are at a much bigger disadvantage in school. Most of the primary school teachers are female and relate better to the girls; the activities are better suited to the girls and I believe statistically girls do better. And these are the same girls who were wearing lipgloss and glitter at 6. Doesn't seem to have done them any harm at all!
Recently ds2's class did a production of "Oliver" And the teacher cast a girl as Oliver because "Why shouldn't a girl play Oliver?" So my precious ds2 the boys missed out on that role even though, if for example they had been doing "Annie" the reverse would never have happened.

Tortington · 29/05/2009 20:59

no actually hundredtimes she isn't saying that its marketing - or she certainly isn't saying that is to blame - she refers to it - bcuase well, one has to really.
imo, she is trying to equate pink - poor education in maths and science - lack of ambition - and cheap labour ... and then the cherry on top...your husband will leave you for a cheaper pinker modle WWTF? continues to ask us women why we stand for it considering what our mothers and grandmothers did for the feminist cause.

becuase they wear pink.

she goes from one paragraph talking about the evils of pink - the next she is talking about the oecd and girls not doing well at maths and science.

its a seriously warped view, seriously seriously - she could of only mused about this whilst having a long dump - in the way that i might muse about ramraiding the chemist in a zombie attack.

complete unsubstantiated tripe.

becuase lots of girls ask to be artimis WTF i didn't even know about artimis until secondary school when i studied 'classics'

theres dumbing down over the ages but dare i suggest that there was rarely ever a game where a little girl said " i'll be artimis and you be athena, katy"

and this dumbing down is becuase they wear pink - she is inferring!

maybe next time she can ponder the virtues of captain underpants as a nedtime story versus the iliad

Tortington · 29/05/2009 21:11

and ofcourse she didn't mention class - it wouldn't occur to - mention everything our mothers and grandmothers did - people have a brainfart and flash on pankhust and woman dead under kings horse. becuase thats the kind of condensed version that those who dont know any better latch onto.

on the upside it got me fired up and i started going on about it to my daughter in raised voice "Peterloo...the working classes died...marched from chadderton oldham to manchester - slaughered... the working classes fought and died - you remember and tell your daughters!"

she did roll her eyes and say
"yes mum i know"

teafortwo · 29/05/2009 21:11

Chipmonkey -

I do feel the whole institution of Primary Education (I can't say for secondary as I have no experience here) has evolved in such a way that it is easier for random socially acceptable girl to be successful than random socially acceptable boy... This is simply because boys natural inclinations plus what society expects of a boy and what schools expect of them don't gel as easily as for girls.

Having said that I have taught some very wriggly girls and some 'perfect student' boys - So please note I am not talking on an individual level here - I mean in general.

OrmIrian · 29/05/2009 22:14

I have a tomboy. She wasn't always like that. When she was first at school she like pink, fairies and the whole princess paraphenalia. Her first school bday party was a fairy princess theme - I even made her a fairy castle cake. But she grew out of it - by the age of 6 iirc. And that is fine. It only becomes corrosive when it carries on into later life - when being pink and feminine becomes a way of getting through life, simpering and being a bit feeble is a way to get what you want. Baby pink and princess crap is OK for a baby. Not for a sensible intelligent child, and god forbid, for a grown woman.

Judy1234 · 29/05/2009 22:21

Perhaps the questions to ask yourself would your daughter like me be desperate for a pen knife and be told she had to wait until she turned 10 or would she be after being allowed to wear make up? Would she be in the garden aged 11 as I was and indeed I'm sure my daughters would have been trying to make fire with sticks or playing with a pink wand inside. But we've always had girlie girls - violet elizabeth Bott in the Just William stories was one of those. Are they still treated with derision as boring air heads though or are they some kind of desirable potential stepford wife?

OP posts:
Voltaire · 29/05/2009 22:34

I was a proper tom boy. I tied my own flies to go fishing with and everything.

But girls and boys are different. My daughter is naturally drawn towards pretty things. Something that entirely passes by my 3 boys.

KathyBrown · 29/05/2009 22:37

My girls all dressed as Monsoon type princess' until they hit 7 and then it was like a switch flicked and they turned their backs completely on all that is pink, purple and wouldn't be seen dead in Lelli Kelly's now.
I insist on pink converses otherwise the 8 year old gets asked if somebody close just died in Tesco's.
I see many many friends on facebook etc who are far too concerned about their daughters appearance but what can you say ? I try to guide my girls in terms of valuing their education and frankly I will be heart broken if they become stay at home mothers, even though I have been because I hoped that I'd been down that road so they didn't have to.

rupertsabear · 29/05/2009 22:43

I've got 3 sons and they wear blue all the time and play with toy swords. Hope that they will get all the good jobs one day

piscesmoon · 29/05/2009 22:47

' Most of the primary school teachers are female and relate better to the girls; '

I would agree that most are female but the second part isn't true. As a primary teacher with 3 DSs, I would say that I find it much easier to relate to boys-I am not the only one!

I think it is entirely up to the DD. They either like pink and princesses or they don't-it should be up to them. It doesn't really matter what the parent prefers.

Bumperlicioso · 29/05/2009 22:47

DD is a resolute girly girl at 23mo. She was nurturing dollies as soon as she could walk, hates getting her hands dirty, likes hats and other accessories and is deathly afraid of insects (sorry - that's extreme stereotyping of girls traits I know!). I've bought her cement mixers, police cars etc. and she is just not interested. I'm not bothered if she is a girly girl, but I didn't want her playing with girls toys by default as that is what everyone buys her, that's why I bought some boys toys. She does have an obsession with balls though, to DH's joy!

I'm ok with a toy kitchen for her but I most definitely won't be getting her her any toy houseworks products, I'm not sure I want her to be aspiring to iron or hoover, but if she really wants to she can bloody well use the real things!

mrsruffallo · 29/05/2009 22:52

Gosh, Custardo, your posts here are spot on.
What I wanted to say but you put it so much better

Nighbynight · 29/05/2009 22:54

It is true that there is a terrible recruitment crisis of women in science and engineering, but I dont think this article is near to identifying the causes.
I am not sure what they are, though.

GodzillasBumcheek · 29/05/2009 22:59

I have not read the whole thread but i appear to be in an alternate reality in which i am siding (although not 100% wholeheartedly as i think there is a middle ground) with...Xenia

Hasakane · 29/05/2009 22:59

Message withdrawn

GodzillasBumcheek · 29/05/2009 23:02

and also Custy. But also ROFLOL at Captain Underpants being a worthwhile bedtime story...

I think i just hate Disney Princesses actually (the brand not the original films).

KathyBrown · 29/05/2009 23:10

Fathers are extremely important to a girls self esteem and relationships with their partners being healthy and equal.
There was a lady on 5 live a few weeks ago who had trained as an engineer then given up as it was an uphill battle being a woman apparently, then trained as a teacher, was now going into medicine so I think it's making a career of it which is hard rather than getting into science/engineering/IT etc.
But I knew a man who got a first in engineering and spent 2 years on the dole looking for a job so maybe it's that causing the problems, girls maybe want a career in arts, literacy etc because they feel they haven't got 20 years post Uni to work for peanuts.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 29/05/2009 23:12

Well, I have a near-4yo who loves the whole disney princess thing, but she is also incredibly independant and strong minded, so I don't sweat it, tbh. Think Hasanke made a good point about dad's role in it all- I was very much a daddy's girl and preferred going running/ walking with my dad to shopping with my mum. My girls do ballet, but next year I am hoping to start them in karate too.

I think it's not so much the "pinkification" they take in in their pre-school years, it's more the stuff in magazines etc that gets imposed on them in their teenage years- women must be thin and beautiful etc. Look at the female role models society seems to hold up. I picked up a "chick-lit" book at the library last time I was there, and I can't read it without getting frustrated. it seems to me that female literary "heroines" are riddled with weaknesses and make lots of silly mistakes, whereas heroes in male fiction DO things, achieve things, other than just "finding themselves"

GodzillasBumcheek · 29/05/2009 23:25

There really is a middle ground - there's such a thing as 'liking' pink, and then there's 'obsessive'. But then i haven't really given my kids the option to be obsessive about it.

Oddly, we don't buy magazines either, so that influence is unlikely to happen. not because i don't allow them btw - they just have never asked!