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Responsibility to let girls be tom boys...

244 replies

Judy1234 · 29/05/2009 10:27

Do you dress your girls in pink? Expect them to be housewives? Given then a role model at home of mother home 24/7 doing dull domestic stuff, father hardly there? or do you encourage them in their adventurousness, let them ride, ski, fight, climb trees? Would you steer them away from a stereotyped party dress and read them stories where girls can be brave rather than simper?

........
From The Times
May 29, 2009
The pernicious pinkification of little girls
Find the link between (a) princess costumes (b) short hair and (c) the number of women graduates in maths and science
Antonia Senior

Where have all the pirate queens gone? Where are the cowgirls and the Supergirls? Today's fancy dress parties divide strictly on gender lines. The boys' side holds a handful of Batmans, a sprinkling of Spider-Mans, some soldiers and the odd cowboy. And on the girls' side, ten identikit princesses, swathed in pink, encrusted with fake crystals.

Is this, then, the summit of their ambition, the ultimate fantasy wish of modern girlhood - to be a princess? A role that can be inherited along with genetic mutations from generations of inbreeding. You can work for the role, it is true. Be pretty enough, my darling girl child, and mute enough, and bland enough, and you too could marry a prince. Because every girl's dream should be to lead a life of buffed and pedicured leisure, courtesy of a balding, chinless aristocrat, Whisper it, but the frog, as long as he's funny and kind, would have been the better bet.

There is an alternative to being a princess, a second costume beloved of today's girls. They shun the Ice Queens and the Elven warriors, ignore Artemis, the huntress, and Athena, the wise. Instead they celebrate the Fairy; three inches of cute, winged blondeness, dressed, inevitably, in pink.

This creeping pinkification of girlhood is ubiquitous. Toys and clothes have split down gender lines. It is impossible to buy a gender- neutral bike any more. Bikes come in blue, or in pink; as do baby walkers, and mini-keyboards, and any other toy that might once have been - imagine it! - purple or green.
Background

  • Staff baffled by fuss over bed called Lolita

  • Hollywood goes girly

  • Katie Price: a feminist icon of our times?

  • Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen and his daughter Cecile

Girls' jeans come with butterflies and hearts stitched on every spare centimetre of fabric. T-shirts carry cute slogans - ?Cherry cute! Hello Kitty?. Swimming costumes are girdled with frills. Next time you are in the park, try to spot a prepubescent girl with short hair, or one wearing trousers. Long hair, dresses and pink; it's Amish meets Disney out there.

The triumph of this pink and cutesy ideal of girlhood is grim for more than aesthetic reasons. A report published this week by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) highlighted the differences between 15-year-old girls and boys' attitudes to learning. Even though girls graduate from senior school in greater numbers than boys across the OECD countries, girls lag behind in key areas. Boys outperform girls in maths in all but eight countries. In most OECD countries, girls and boys perform equally well in science. But in six countries, boys achieve significantly better results. Top of this list is the United Kingdom.

There is a correlation between attitudes to academic subjects and performance. In the UK, girls don't do numbers. And girls definitely don't do science. Angel Gurría, the OECD's secretary-general, argues that we are complacent about gender stereotyping and that the idea that boys don't do reading and girls don't do maths persists.

These girls will one day grow up. Even though the number of women at university is increasing rapidly, they are not narrowing the gap in science, maths and computer science. As graduates then, they leave the lucrative jobs in the City, in laboratories and in computers to the boys. Armed with liberal arts degrees - a useful accoutrement in the marriage market, like a little French and dancing once were - they may marry their prince after a few years pretending to have a career at an auction house. But happy ever after is a lie. Divorce statistics suggest he is likely to leave for a pinker, younger version.

The modern, Western world has emancipated women and made breadwinners out of them. Yet we are imprisoning our little girls in pink straitjackets, and then acting surprised later when their academic ambitions fail to outshine their accessories. Our girls' view of the world is pink-tinted partly because of the supply of cheap goods. When hand-me-downs ruled, parents would be more cautious. Now that clothes and toys are imported and cheap, it matters less if you buy all pink for your first-born, and replace it all with blue when a boy arrives. A T-shirt is expendable when it cost £5 in the shop, and pennies to make in a sweatshop employing the quick, cheap fingers of foreign children.

But the pinking process would not be happening without demand from the girls themselves and their parents. Put a gaggle of girls in a nursery and they will copy each other. Throw into the mix the culturally overbearing world of Disney, add a sprinkle of fashion fairy dust, and a roomful of princesses is born. For a vision of what this looks like, visit disney.go.com/princess/#/home. All the Disney princesses are there in a terrifying tableau of simpering, gurning girlishness. Why are all these princesses, the apotheoses of modern girlhood, clasping their hands together in front of them, in an expression of coy submissiveness?

If peer pressure is one driver of demand, the other must come from the parents. Perhaps this is a backlash against the Seventies, when boys called Orlando were forced to play with dolls, and girls wore trousers. Feminist theory has developed since then, recognising that there are differences between the sexes. But this seems to have mutated into an insistence that we emphasise the differences. If a girl old enough to choose begs to dress as a princess, it would be dogmatic to refuse. But why encourage this inanity in babies and toddlers too young to care?

The mothers of these girls, the careless inheritors of the equality hard won by their own mothers and grandmothers, are complicit in this pinking up of girlhood. Why? These women have themselves bestridden the world of work like colossi. Yet they are raising a generation of girls who, when confronted by a periodic table or a quadratic equation, are fit only to curl hair coyly round fingers, and say, in an affected lisp: ?Why are we bothering our pretty little heads about any of this??

OP posts:
monkeytrousers · 31/05/2009 18:48

Well, actually that's not true - you do have to justify your choices to your loved ones. Like all of us do. No one else matters in that equation though

mumbee · 31/05/2009 19:53

My Dd nearly nine started off in pinks and lilacs which we both loved now she has graduated to other choices including a beautiful jade green dress for summer, jeans and stuff glitter or not also from High School Music - which includes girls in role not normally encouraged science, maths and such. We went through the whole Disney thing for both my Dd & Ds but both know that is not the real world at school Dd is good in all subjects including maths and science and loves reading which comes in part from reading disney stories as a small child she also wants to be a vet after school and my son is good in art so if you as parents encourage your children to see other issues then the rule of pink and blue blur with time. My biggest problem is to get boys stuff that doesn't have skulls, guns and other violent paraphernalia on it. He also likes to wear reds and light colours normally associated with girls clothes. slagan on boys t-shirts often imply that they are naughty, mischievous and out to brake the rules which is not true of them either.

My Dd also loves to play out, gardening and such like - I have had no problem getting the clothes clean afterwards a good wash at a decent temperature and stain remover in the machine works wonders so my Dd is a true girl. I'm proud of who she is and know that the obession of her mothers disney bug has not left her looking for her prince charming in the near future (I'll come back to that in 20 years!!! )

nooka · 31/05/2009 22:43

What's a "true girl?" isn't that rather like that "real women" discussion we had the other day? I'm me first and foremost. Part of that me is that I'm a woman, but also that I'm the daughter of my parents, and the sister of my siblings and the product of my education and my circumstances. I want my children to be first and foremost themselves. I really hate this pushing of you are a girl/boy therefore...

But I do agree clothes wise it's the extremities (really the fact that they exist at all) that bother me, because they seem to boil down to a message of all girls and tarts and all boys are violent, and regardless of the deep sexism of that it's a bloody horrible message full stop. That clothes of this nature can be found in the mainstream and for tiny children who certainly aren't choosing them personally is even worse.

Astrophe · 01/06/2009 00:20

The more I read the more I think that most of us are dancing around the same middle ground...

Surely our role as parents is to make sure our children (boys and girls) are allowed to make choices and experiment (with pink fairy dresses, with being 'rough and tough', with building blocks, with sewing), but at the same time ensure that they are leaving options open to themselves to change their role when they want to?

Which is why (IMHO) it's fine to see a little girl in a fairy dress, but sad to see a little girl who owns nothing but fairy/princess dresses, because that little girl doesn't really have any other options available for when/if she decided to explore other roles, games, and activities.

Ditto little boys who own nothing but trucks and cars and books about trucks and cars...said boy is unlikely to even consider the broader options (books about nature, books about babies, playing shopping games) if he has little exposure to them.

OrmIrian · 01/06/2009 07:53

atrophe - you are right. It is, as usual, about moderation.

OrmIrian · 01/06/2009 08:13

Sorry astrophe

OK here is an example of pinkification that I find extremely odd. I'd like to see if most people agree with me that it is. We were at a friend's house yesterday. Their DD turned up with 10m old granddaughter. She has one of those push along car things with a long handle for the adult to steer and push with. It had been inherited from someone with a boy. It was blue and yellow. The mum wanted to get some 'girly' stuff to stick on it, pink flowers and the like. Now come on, that is weird isn't it. A child of 10m isn't going to care one way or the other? So why bother?

GetOrfMoiLand · 01/06/2009 08:31

Another bloody sodding article in the Sunday Times yesterday effectively suggesting that it's not at all a bad idea to marry a man for his money. Sample quotes:

"Ford is a single parent, whose husband, after 13 happy years of marriage, ?traded up for a younger model?, as she puts it. She swears she is not bitter, but ?being a single mom is really hard. It?s just that if I knew [then] what I know now... There?s a lot of great and essential things you can get from a man ? financial things like being able to own a house and pay for great childcare?.
"They even advise sleeping with your boss if you calculate that you can do so without harming your feelings or prospects. They advise that men don?t want high-earning women, and not to be too ambitious, while also lambasting the male-driven era of greed that has brought down the global economy. It?s a far-reaching book, backed up with a lot of research and argument, packaged as bouncy self-help for the chick-lit market"
Oh bollocks to it, don't know why I bothered to slog my way up the career ladder, should have just slept with my first boss. Apart from the factI like to be able to pay for my own frigging house and childcare.

GetOrfMoiLand · 01/06/2009 08:40

Custardo's posts were great - agree with the fact that for most of the middle classes further education and the support to make choices about your future has always been an option, however for the vast majority of working class children (both boys and girls) there has been an assumption that you will leave school at a certain age and follow the normal stereotype of a normal job (such as mechanic, hairdresser), settle down and have kids young.
I didn't particluarly break that mould myself. I got a scholarship to private school (entered by my primary school on the QT), however my gran forbade me to go, as she couldn't afford the uniform (though I am sure that there would have been help with that if she had the confidence to have asked), also, I think she didn't want me to 'change'. I ended up getting very good GCSEs, determined to go to university, but to cut a long story short ended up pregnant at 17. When dd was born I went back to work on a production line in a factory, also working in a bar for extra cash. Put my way through A levels and a company sponsored degree, now after years of slog have a good career in engineering. But it has not been without its difficulties. For one my family who have not always been 100% supportive of my choice to work full time with a baby, and also of my ambition, such as chopping and changing jobs, moving away, working abroad etc.

completelyabsolutely · 01/06/2009 12:13

FWIW I took my dd (only 15 months so I still get to choose!) to her nursery fancy dress party, she was literally the only girl there not dressed as either a princess or a fairy - she was dressed as darth vader

LeninGrad · 01/06/2009 12:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Astrophe · 01/06/2009 13:04

completelyabsolutely!

OrmIrian - I agree that is completely nuts - a case of parents pushing pinkness, rather than just honouring a child's choice if they choose it. I guess they do it just because they think it's cute...like having a pretty doll...but I think it's a bad start!

Judy1234 · 03/06/2009 10:39

Get's life shows the big differences between classes in many ways although plenty of p osh girls get sent to boarding schools for the very unintelligent and are expected simply in due course to marry well.

OP posts:
GetOrfMoiLand · 03/06/2009 10:57

Xenia - absolutely. My best friend at primary school was entered for the same private school scholarship as me - we were both granted scholarships. However, she was middle class, her parents supported and encouraged her in every way, she went to school, got 10 GCSEs, 5 A levels, went to Cambridge and graduated with a first on double maths, went to work for merchant bank in the city, now is very high up and successful, plus on the board of a charity etc.

However her mother was a very traditional SAHM so she didn't have a role model so to speak. But she was very much encouraged and pushed to achieve the very best she could.

In comparison with my gran who never went to parents evening, loathed me reading (I had to read in the dark, at night, so she wouldn't know), hated my revising for my exams, didn't want to me to go away to university. I didn't help my own cause by becoming pregnant at 17, however I have bloody well made up for it since. But I think my friend's route is preferable!

GetOrfMoiLand · 03/06/2009 11:00

Also differences in boarding schools. In Cheltenham you have the Ladies' College (very academic, hard working and high achieving girls) or Cheltenham College (where they turn out girls of the Kate Middleton ilk). BIG difference.

Judy1234 · 03/06/2009 12:05

Very big difference. My children are at or have been to reasonably academic day private schools - North London Collegiate etc and they get 99% AA* GCSE and 100% of the sixth form goes to good universities. Other private schools are nothing like that. In some ways if the child is not very bright a good school can make even more difference, small classes, showing them options for careers where you don't need to be very clever but can earn a decent living and where contacts with friends at school matter more than ifyou're going to be very clever and do well anyway.

Contrast Get with us - middle class but only because my mother moved classes because she was clever and went on to further education, where our parents very much supported us, read to us, my father had us read hte Times leader columns to him i the car when he drove us to our private schools every morning for example in the early 70s. Indeed my brother and I were a year young at school. I went to unviersity at 17. My siblings went to Oxbridge.

So perhaps it's as much class as gender which determines more how we turn out

OP posts:
wishingchair · 04/06/2009 14:08

The other day in a garden centre they have racks of stickers with childrens names on them. Boys names were on Thomas the Tank Engine, girls were on Angelina Ballerina. Now my almost 3 yo DD2 wouldn't know Angelina if she slapped her in the face but LOVES Thomas. She ended up with stickers with "Connor" on them. It infuriates me - why can't a girl like Thomas????

DD1 is 6 now and it has only taken those few short years for ELC to start producing everything in both blue and pink. What's wrong with yellow, orange, green. Gah.

wishingchair · 04/06/2009 14:18

Sorry ... another thought. What I really really hate though is the phrase "girly". It has such negative connotations. DD1 likes wearing dresses and twirly skirts, loves Sharpay from HSM (despite my coaching ... "why??? she's mean!!"), etc. So many times have I heard people be so surprised when they then see her squidging about in mud, climbing trees, picking up bugs etc ... they say "look at her! I never would've thought she'd like to do that, she's so girly".

Do we really expect our children to be so two dimensional?? A girl can't like to wear dresses AND get messy??? Tis ridiculous. "Girly" seems to mean pretty, prissy, weak. I honestly think the gender stereotyping of boys and girls is worse now than when I was a child in the 70s. We talk about choice and the importance of it for our gender, yet then at the same time massively restrict choice for our daughters. Insanity. And not good.

pollmeister · 04/06/2009 16:40

I actively encourage my 2 and a half year old daughter not to have everything pink. But she says its her favourite colour anyway. When I put a blue top on her she says "I look like a boy" ! Then again I do sometimes buy boys T-shirts for her - she's wearing one with robots on right now.

I was a wee kid in the 70s. Did we wear pink clothes? back then Never! When I look back at photos its all browns, red and dark green.

sigh

KewMum · 05/06/2009 06:48

Please don't 'wish' you don't have a daughter just because of the 'pink' issue. Not all girls are 'girly'. I'm a stay at home mum whose daughter just turned 4 (she also has 2 younger brothers). She's never been 'girly'. I've never pushed girlyness on her, but have given her some option (she did a few ballet lessons, but didn't want to do more)...and she's never been one to dress up. If my husband says "Are you daddy's princess?" she replies "I'm not a princess, I'm just Ailsa".

For her recent birthday the cake had snakes, and snakes hatching out of eggs per her request. If she'd have wanted princess, we'd have done it (last year it was dinosaurs).
I generally try not to buy too many 'branded things' - but they are everywhere. As far as the Disney 'classics' go, she's only seen the last part of Sleeping Beauty (wide eyed), so she may be getting more girly.

We've only recently got her wearing dresses (so she can were the ones she gets as gifts, as well as her school uniform in a few months time). She's more comfy in leggings, and tends to wear them under dresses. If you look hard (Gap is a good start) you can find some little girls clothes without 'cute' on the shirt. I'm trying to dress her in clothes that I'd like to see her in when she's older (start as you mean to go on).

I think we're at a nice balance now - she likes for me to paint her nails, but isn't drawn into the consumer marketing hype (so far). It might be coming...but so far, having a girl hasn't surrounded me with a pink fairyland world. She likes trains, dinosaurs, and bugs....and is very into drawing / arts and crafts.

Oh, I also stocked up on plastic placemats from ebay.com vendor in the US (Orangeyogurt) ...ocean animals, phonics, dinosaurs, flags of the world, periodic table...you name it. I guess I've been trying to have things more interesting to look at / talk about rather than branding.

Sorry if rambling. All girls are different. I don't think many of her friends are 'super girly', though it is probably a phase a lot of girls go through (but encouraged in marketing). Perhaps you can control how much of your house is given over to it (have books, movies, dress up clothes - but minimize toys..and use it as basis for art activities - ....make a temporary castle with a box...make 'princess hats, princess cookies (but try to sneak in a few dragons that want to eat the princess, just to keep it interesting / to tell a story with the cookies).. Maybe the mums could be the princess and get their 'girly girl' to pretend to be the dragon / knight / fairy godmother for other points of view.

Just my 2 cents on this subject...

sfumatura · 05/06/2009 11:09

haven't read the whole thread, so this link might have been posted already, but I remembered I really preferred this article:
www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/mar/29/familyandrelationships.family1

for me, pink is a symbol for a lot of things that need to be questioned...would be nice to see it used proportional to other colours, and not as a must on every item for girls. there is some choice, but it does seem to be aimed at high(er) earning, middle class people with time and money to 'buy their way out'...

kittywise · 05/06/2009 11:13

xenia, I let them be what they want to be.

They see me as a full time mum dedicating this part of my life completely to them. My DP works his socks of to provide for them. It is all about them at the moment not about us.

If they want to have lots of babies and be sahm's when they grow up, great, why not? It' a fantastic thing to do to be there for your children
it's about choice not pushing crap feminist twaddle.

kittywise · 05/06/2009 11:16

One of my dd's is a tomboy and the other 2 love pink and floaty dresses btw.

kittywise · 05/06/2009 11:16

One of my dd's is a tomboy and the other 2 love pink and floaty dresses btw.

LeninGrad · 05/06/2009 11:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shockers · 07/06/2009 00:26

Completely agree with sfumatura... look at girls clothing that is marketed at middle class parents... lower ratio of of pink and distinct lack of fluff ! Boden, Joules etc...
Personally, I am grateful for a tomboy but my sister has 2 equally lovely 'princesses'.