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Responsibility to let girls be tom boys...

244 replies

Judy1234 · 29/05/2009 10:27

Do you dress your girls in pink? Expect them to be housewives? Given then a role model at home of mother home 24/7 doing dull domestic stuff, father hardly there? or do you encourage them in their adventurousness, let them ride, ski, fight, climb trees? Would you steer them away from a stereotyped party dress and read them stories where girls can be brave rather than simper?

........
From The Times
May 29, 2009
The pernicious pinkification of little girls
Find the link between (a) princess costumes (b) short hair and (c) the number of women graduates in maths and science
Antonia Senior

Where have all the pirate queens gone? Where are the cowgirls and the Supergirls? Today's fancy dress parties divide strictly on gender lines. The boys' side holds a handful of Batmans, a sprinkling of Spider-Mans, some soldiers and the odd cowboy. And on the girls' side, ten identikit princesses, swathed in pink, encrusted with fake crystals.

Is this, then, the summit of their ambition, the ultimate fantasy wish of modern girlhood - to be a princess? A role that can be inherited along with genetic mutations from generations of inbreeding. You can work for the role, it is true. Be pretty enough, my darling girl child, and mute enough, and bland enough, and you too could marry a prince. Because every girl's dream should be to lead a life of buffed and pedicured leisure, courtesy of a balding, chinless aristocrat, Whisper it, but the frog, as long as he's funny and kind, would have been the better bet.

There is an alternative to being a princess, a second costume beloved of today's girls. They shun the Ice Queens and the Elven warriors, ignore Artemis, the huntress, and Athena, the wise. Instead they celebrate the Fairy; three inches of cute, winged blondeness, dressed, inevitably, in pink.

This creeping pinkification of girlhood is ubiquitous. Toys and clothes have split down gender lines. It is impossible to buy a gender- neutral bike any more. Bikes come in blue, or in pink; as do baby walkers, and mini-keyboards, and any other toy that might once have been - imagine it! - purple or green.
Background

  • Staff baffled by fuss over bed called Lolita

  • Hollywood goes girly

  • Katie Price: a feminist icon of our times?

  • Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen and his daughter Cecile

Girls' jeans come with butterflies and hearts stitched on every spare centimetre of fabric. T-shirts carry cute slogans - ?Cherry cute! Hello Kitty?. Swimming costumes are girdled with frills. Next time you are in the park, try to spot a prepubescent girl with short hair, or one wearing trousers. Long hair, dresses and pink; it's Amish meets Disney out there.

The triumph of this pink and cutesy ideal of girlhood is grim for more than aesthetic reasons. A report published this week by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) highlighted the differences between 15-year-old girls and boys' attitudes to learning. Even though girls graduate from senior school in greater numbers than boys across the OECD countries, girls lag behind in key areas. Boys outperform girls in maths in all but eight countries. In most OECD countries, girls and boys perform equally well in science. But in six countries, boys achieve significantly better results. Top of this list is the United Kingdom.

There is a correlation between attitudes to academic subjects and performance. In the UK, girls don't do numbers. And girls definitely don't do science. Angel Gurría, the OECD's secretary-general, argues that we are complacent about gender stereotyping and that the idea that boys don't do reading and girls don't do maths persists.

These girls will one day grow up. Even though the number of women at university is increasing rapidly, they are not narrowing the gap in science, maths and computer science. As graduates then, they leave the lucrative jobs in the City, in laboratories and in computers to the boys. Armed with liberal arts degrees - a useful accoutrement in the marriage market, like a little French and dancing once were - they may marry their prince after a few years pretending to have a career at an auction house. But happy ever after is a lie. Divorce statistics suggest he is likely to leave for a pinker, younger version.

The modern, Western world has emancipated women and made breadwinners out of them. Yet we are imprisoning our little girls in pink straitjackets, and then acting surprised later when their academic ambitions fail to outshine their accessories. Our girls' view of the world is pink-tinted partly because of the supply of cheap goods. When hand-me-downs ruled, parents would be more cautious. Now that clothes and toys are imported and cheap, it matters less if you buy all pink for your first-born, and replace it all with blue when a boy arrives. A T-shirt is expendable when it cost £5 in the shop, and pennies to make in a sweatshop employing the quick, cheap fingers of foreign children.

But the pinking process would not be happening without demand from the girls themselves and their parents. Put a gaggle of girls in a nursery and they will copy each other. Throw into the mix the culturally overbearing world of Disney, add a sprinkle of fashion fairy dust, and a roomful of princesses is born. For a vision of what this looks like, visit disney.go.com/princess/#/home. All the Disney princesses are there in a terrifying tableau of simpering, gurning girlishness. Why are all these princesses, the apotheoses of modern girlhood, clasping their hands together in front of them, in an expression of coy submissiveness?

If peer pressure is one driver of demand, the other must come from the parents. Perhaps this is a backlash against the Seventies, when boys called Orlando were forced to play with dolls, and girls wore trousers. Feminist theory has developed since then, recognising that there are differences between the sexes. But this seems to have mutated into an insistence that we emphasise the differences. If a girl old enough to choose begs to dress as a princess, it would be dogmatic to refuse. But why encourage this inanity in babies and toddlers too young to care?

The mothers of these girls, the careless inheritors of the equality hard won by their own mothers and grandmothers, are complicit in this pinking up of girlhood. Why? These women have themselves bestridden the world of work like colossi. Yet they are raising a generation of girls who, when confronted by a periodic table or a quadratic equation, are fit only to curl hair coyly round fingers, and say, in an affected lisp: ?Why are we bothering our pretty little heads about any of this??

OP posts:
Jaquelinehyde · 29/05/2009 23:52

Yes there is lots of pink about, too much I think we would all agree. There is also far too much blue about....is this damaging our precious boys?

Pink, Princesses, and fairies does not = failure or lack of ambition.

Parents and society as a whole have a responsibility to ensure that every child has the oppertunity to follow whatever path they wish.

The Disneyfication of society is a sad reality (I wrote a paper on it last week, very interesting), however, in the real world it is possible for a Princess to go on and do more than be rescued by a dashing prince.

Come on lets stop the hysteria.

glasjam · 30/05/2009 00:49

Xenia - what with your Panamanian Island and you overall poshness you sound like a reet old Lucy Irving!

Astrophe · 30/05/2009 04:19

I don't think this is just a 'girl' problem - we see the other side of the coin for boys I think.

Boys and girls are different, and I don't think there is a problem with girls enjoying getting dressed nicely, or with boys enjoying rough and tumble adventure play...so long as they are not limited to those pursuits.

My DD (5 years) just loves wearing skirts - I think this is partly peer pressure and partly her own inclination (we didn't encourage 'pinkness' etc before she was old enough to insist herself - dresses and skirts are so impractical for crawlers and toddlers!).

I don't want to be a dictator, but I do want to make sure the choices she makes (eg, wearing pink skirts), doesn't become a trap for her that she can't back out of at a later date. And so I insist she wears shorter, fuller skirts with leggings or shorts underneath to Kindergarten, so that she can still run and climb. I try to choose dark pinks and patterns, so that they wash ok, and I restrain myself from complaining about mud stains on her 'best' dresses, because I don't want her to think I disaprove of muddy play.

Equally, with toys, I am happy to get some 'girls' lego if that encourages her to play with it, but I also actively avoid exposoing her to advertising and merchandising, and actively encourage her interest in a wide range of books, toys etc.

I think its my job to honour her choices, but try to make sure she doesn't become so embroiled in any silly stereotypes that she feels her role or self is defined by them.

All of the above applies just as much to my DS though (age 3) - who I feel is encouraged by broader society and advertising to be interested in agression and gross motor, and not to be interested in fine motor skills, nurturing and 'thinking' games.

IME, Its the families of only sons that I know who have a house full of 'boy' toys, and families with only daughters who tend to be more aware of the social pressures on their daughters and who are purposeful in giving their daughters access to 'male' pursuits (although there are a couple of notable exceptions).

nooka · 30/05/2009 06:33

My children I am sad to say conform to most of the stereotypes, which as I don't (and neither does dh) I have always found somewhat surprising. My sister has two dds (I have a ds and and a dd), and when the children were little I can remember talking with her about how it was actually really great that girls could be feminine and girly and still go on to do anything they wanted, and that maybe that option would be available for our girls in a way that was difficult for us. But as I have got older I have realised that not being allowed to be girly was more to do with my mother's ambivalence, in that she seems to have an underlying feeling that men are more important than women, but also that being feminine is bad on a feminist front. Watching dd grow up I am also very concerned that whilst she is growing out of the pink phase, she still thinks that what she wears and how she looks is very important and will be judged. Also she has a really strong wish to be much more grown up, and that is associated in her mind with lip stick and heels and dressing up (and more recently boys). At eight I want her to be mostly just thinking of how to have fun! ds on the other hand is oblivious to any of these thoughts, which is I think a good thing.

ErnestTheBavarian · 30/05/2009 07:16

Pinkness is definately worse in UK than in eg Germany. This has been a horror of mine for a long long time. Bright pink bikes with glittery streamers off the handles. pink unicorns,

I despise pink. My amntra for the last 9 years has been 'thank God I only have sons'. Now I have a dd. I have not yet bought her anything pink. Nor will I unless she expressly asks for it, (and I'm convinced.)

She wears a lot of her brothers' hand me downs. I have bought her some dresses (more practical with washable nappies) but it's been turquoise or orange - never pink.

A friend of mine has a pfb dd. everything pink. I was very . I remember a few weeks ago it was raining. Her dd (about 20 months) only had pink ballet pumps, so she wasn't allowed out of her pushchair to play in the park. I was and . I suggested it might be wiser to get more robust shoes for her dd to play in, but her mum was totally adamant that it wasn't possible to buy shoes for little girls other than the type she had. I sighed, banged my head a bit more against a brick wall and wondered why they had to be 'shoes for girls' and why pink. My dd will be wearing her brothers' ex-navy, red or brown shoes while wading through muddy puddles.

oh, and now friend has to buy everything new again, as she's just had ds, and he cannot sit in a pink car seat or wear pink clothes.

Hopefully having 3 big brothers will encourage my dd to be erm robust

piscesmoon · 30/05/2009 07:54

'DD is a resolute girly girl at 23mo. She was nurturing dollies as soon as she could walk, hates getting her hands dirty, likes hats and other accessories and is deathly afraid of insects (sorry - that's extreme stereotyping of girls traits I know!). I've bought her cement mixers, police cars etc. and she is just not interested. '

Some girls are just like this. I have a friend with DCs 15 months apart. She was determined they would be brought up the same. The girl was just like this post and the boy was into bikes and construction toys. He was younger and could ride a two wheeler long before his sister and knew how to build lego. This was despite the best efforts of my friend.
My DSs adored their toy kitchen.

I think that people should leave wellalone and stop trying to engineer. If you have a 'girly' girl who wants to dress up in pink, there is nothing worse that a parent making snide comments-just go with the flow. If she is a natural tomboy she will show it early on.

It doesn't matter what you as a parent, think or want, you should just leave them free to develop their own preference IMO.
Playing with kitchens didn't leave my DSs keen to use real ones as teens-unfortunately!

A very 'pink' 4 yr old will most probably grow out of it.

nooka · 30/05/2009 08:03

I think that is well and good if there aren't other influences. But there are huge societal pressures on both girls and boys. They don't make those choices in a vacuum.

I'm really glad now we are in Canada and there is a much bigger outdoors emphasis for all children here. Football for example is a big sport for girls, and all kids seem to cycle everywhere (even dd agrees skirts/dresses and cycling do not go together!). No uniform means that most of the kids wear shorts in the summer/jeans in the winter in a much more unisex kind of way (I don't care about the colour, cut or detailing, just the freedom to play).

LeninGrad · 30/05/2009 08:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

piscesmoon · 30/05/2009 08:28

I haven't got girls but from observation I would say that it seems to be a phase. When they get to about 6 or 7 yrs it seems much more 'cool' to be good at sport etc. I don't see many teens around swathed in pink-they tend to be more into black. I wouldn't worry about it.

monkeytrousers · 30/05/2009 08:45

There is no pressure. In fact there is more choice than ever before. The rows in toysrus are not segregated - girls are exposed to the Ben 10 and star wars isle and boys the barie isle, just as they are exposed to the same adverts on TV.

Tomboys will be tomboys

Girly girls will like Barbie and pink - just as girly boys do too.

Sometimes, you just have to accept that girls do like pink and wonder what exactly is supposed to be wrong with that, except the majority of boys don't like it.

messymissy · 30/05/2009 09:18

I like this thread! I have a dd and it is a trawl to find clothes, shoes or anything that is not pink, with sequins or with flowers on etc etc, especially in pre-walking sizes. I was delighted when next did a fab outfit in a lovely green. I am always on the look out for practical pretty clothes not in pink!

I do buy some pink clothes but not overly so. It is adverts like the lelli shoes that just re-enforce this disney/barbie idea.

Having said that, my dd will always - without prompting of any kind, pick out something in the shops in pink. There is clearly something about it that appeals to little girls, it baffles me - i was never a pink little girl!

Wearing pink does not stop the tomboy play though, she will still climb and dig and get very mucky wearing whatever!

babybillandsplodge · 30/05/2009 09:37

monkeytrousers, I couldn't disagree more about there being "no pressure" and "more choice". I have a son but really struggle to buy toys that are unisex as everything is either cars or princesses. He has a Vtech baby walker, which is multi-coloured - very recently they have brought out a pink one! Why? They are for babies - babies don't care what colour the bloody thing is, it's the parents that are falling for this crap.

As kids get older the pressure comes from their peers and children as young as 3 are now starting to think that pink is for girls and blue is for boys with all the other stereoyping that this brings.

And I've had comments from parents about "oh, he can't use that cup it's pink" or "haha, he has a pink bib on" if I've borrowed from a friend . These are adults (supposedly!)!

When we were kids this just didn't happen - most toys were unisex and it was often v hard to tell the gender of any child under 4. Now, with pink buggies, pink clothes, pink toys, pink bows, etc, etc, etc, (or vice versa for boysobviously!) you'd be hard pushed not to work it out!

It is a marketing ploy but it has more far reaching consequences than that.

SalBySea · 30/05/2009 09:45

"Wearing pink does not stop the tomboy play though"

couldnt agree more - when i was a child I would dress in the most girly-princessey-frilly things I could and then run out and dig up worms / make mud pies / climb trees / go fishing. Oh and I always wanted to go to uni be a scientist when I grew up, reading about fairy princesses and wearing uber girly clothes didn't change that (real life did)

and its not THAT hard to find non pink clothes for girls. I am no longer a fan of pink but still delight in buying clothes for friends and family who have little girls. And I dont have to look far - primark have plenty, Iike lovely yellow sundresses, as do TK maxx.

And I intend to have more children and dont see why if I have a DD she couldnt wear DSs lovely green / yellow / orange clothes and dungarees etc? I probably wouldn't dress a DD in his pale blue stuff but that is only a small section of his wardrobe

and I dont see why, if you dont find what you're looking for in the girls department, you cant look in the boys section for clothes for your DD?

Nettee · 30/05/2009 09:46

My DS loves pink - he is very determined about that even though one of his friends is a girl who says that boys "aren't allowed" to like pink. I think it is just a nice colour that everyone would like if it weren't so associated with girlyness

harleyd · 30/05/2009 09:51

i hate pink, my dd's love it
i cant say ive noticed that its affected either of their ability to do math or climb trees

WinkyWinkola · 30/05/2009 09:52

My DS (4) loves pink too. And all the dressing up frocks he can find. Much to the disgust of my PIL.

Just encourage a balance of colour, activities and interests at home and don't get too stressed about what kids prefer to do.

I think the important thing is that they're allowed to develop their own interests and if that is pink princesses (please no!) then so be it. I'm sure it won't last forever.

The maths and science thing though definitely needs looking at. I so wish that I had done sciences at school. But it just wasn't encouraged - I was definitely pushed into the humanities areas. Hmmm.

WinkyWinkola · 30/05/2009 09:53

Is there actually contempt for "housewives" or SAHMs btw? I mean, if someone - man or woman - chooses to stay at home with the children then that's cool.

SalBySea · 30/05/2009 09:59

I guess it depends on your definition of unisex then cause I think there's loads out there

Ds is wearing a little pair of shorts with an anchor on them - I dont think nautical themes like these short and his red and navy "little sailor" tee are gender specific (having been a little sailor girl myself) and would happily hand these things down to DDs, But I suppose if people consider gender neutral to mean stuff that doesnt have any references to activities which they consider gender specific then I can see how they might struggle

I recently bought some toys for a 6yo boy in a hurry in the first shop I went into and had no problems finding stuff which I considered to be non-gender specific, which I would have played with myself as a girl, and which I would buy DDs (horrible science type kit, star wars stuff and a few crafty bits)

OrmIrian · 30/05/2009 10:26

There is a difference between pink and blue. And obviously I am using them as shorthand for the stereotype not simply colours. Blue encourages you to be physical, outgoing, proactive. Pink doesn't. Pink is passive, things get done to pink. And I am not ignoring the blue stuff like boys don't cry and associated bollockery. That needs addressing too.

I want my DD to get out there, take life by it's throat and shake it. Not easy to do that if you worrying about your nails and wearing killer heels.

WinkyWinkola · 30/05/2009 10:44

But what if your DD/DS doesn't want to get out there and take life by the throat?

Let's just say that he/he wants to perfect her nails and totter about in her heels and those kinds of things are their priorities even in adulthood? That's ok too right because that's what they want? Or not?

I guess what I'm thinking is that you can mold and shape as far as possible but ultimately, what we want as parents doesn't really matter. Obviously parental values will have a big impact but is it not more complex than that?

SalBySea · 30/05/2009 10:48

OrmIriam do you think woman who wear heels and have manicures dont have anything else going for them?

edam · 30/05/2009 11:38

I love Custy. Have never come across another person my age who has told their kids about Peterloo, or mentioned it on here. (I did, once!)

And I bet Custy has also told them about the Lancashire cotton workers who were prepared to starve in support of the slaves in the US.

She's dead right that this article, and many others, do feminism - and all other methods of considering inequalities - a huge disservice by ignoring class issues.

Btw, it makes me very sad when little girls come round to play with ds and are delighted by his train set because they aren't allowed one of their own. Some of the mothers even say to me, oh, X loves playing with Y's trains. Then why the hell don't you buy her some Brio of her own?

It is entirely correct to say that valuing climbing trees over playing with dolls is wrong. We should ascribe the same value to traditional 'feminine' preoccupations as male.

But there is something wrong with a world where the forces of commerce channel our girls into playing with dolls, and discourage them from climbing trees.

(Actually I was rubbish at climbing trees, fell out a LOT but still spent a lot of my time doing it. Never learnt!)

OrmIrian · 30/05/2009 11:43

No sal. But I would say they have different priorities. Why does DD need to be 'beautiful' or concerned by such things to be successful. I want those to be secondary.

winky - she can do what she wishes but I refuse to let her think that she has to go down that route. ATM she is sulking a teeny bit because I bought her a dress from Boden and it's got flowers on it She is going to a party with 5 other 10yr olds and at least some of them will be tarted up to the eyeballs - I don't want her to think that they are normal and she is the odd one out.

juuule · 30/05/2009 11:50

She's going to a party to have fun and you won't let her dress up?
And if she is the only one not dressed up and feels uncomfortable about that is she going to enjoy the party as much as she would have done.

OrmIrian · 30/05/2009 11:52

Not sure who you read that into my post juule She has dressed up. I bought her a new dress and she is the one who is reluctant.