Nick Duerden in the Guardian - His wife "leaves me fully alone with my daughter for the first time" at 16 months!

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Is this normal, for a father to not be left with their child alone until they are over a year old?

Sorry, haven't read all thread but just wanted to say that I took great delight in using this article to clean my grotty bedroom windows this morning. I took particular care to rub the author's smug, infantilised, responsibility-dodging face in the dirtiest bits. The very height of self-indulgent wankery (him, not me).

Well good genetic material wasn't uppermost in my mind when choosing who to parent with. I fell in love with someone who happens to be attractive, well educated, interesting and fun - but then that's hardly surprising, in as much as we tend to be attracted to people who have positive personal qualities!
We enjoyed fabulous childfree years together before embarking on the shared adventure of parenting. Once our children are independent adults, no doubt we'll enter a new phase. I really don't see why some people find this shared parenting thing such a big deal. My husband wanted children as much as I did!

I thought this was awful too. As ever with the family guardian - an opportunity to look at why both women and men collude in allowing such appallingly unequal situations to develop. If he had written about "I am so ashamed, I haven't had sole charge of my DD till now and I am shit at it, how did I let that happen and why are many men and women still not sharing childcare more equally?" and asked his DP to comment on the matter, then yes it would have been interesting. But it was all me me me, I'm such a smug parent because I looked after my DD for one measly day, and look I'm such a great writer too. Yaaaaawwwwwwnnn. WHEN are they going to realise that a supplement about the family could address so many relevant issues instead of just constantly trotting out boring self-absorbed numpties' barely interesting personal revelations about their babies/distant mothers/grandad's brother's dirty secret from before the war etc etc.

So are you saying that I should go out for the day, doing stuff I don't really want to do, just so that dh can be alone with the children? Dh has a fabulous relationship with the children even though he is not that often alone with them, I really don't see what the problem is. At the moment he is sat at the PC with all three of them, to help dd1 with her school project.

For me it's not so much that he hadn't been left alone overnight before with his child - it's similar in this house. More his attitude of "wow I'm so amazing, it's been tough dealing with the shock of becoming a dad and I am so clueless that I got pissed and let my dd almost choke, but hurrah for me because I did it". It's the underlying attitude that it isn't actually his job and yet a medal for him because she basically survived 36 hours with him.

I don't have any bones with one partner spending more time with their DC if that's how it works out. It's the inequality of responsibility that's the problem IYSWIM.

I think the reality is that often one partner spends more actual hours alone with the children because of practicalities. But as you say muffle, it doesn't have to mean inequality of responsibility. And actually, I do believe it's important for each parent to have time alone with their kids, because it does change the dynamics, that's a fact. You can enjoy doing things together as a family, but if each parent has days that they take the child out, cook meals with them, do the day to day stuff, then they are building a relationship that's different from when the whole family is there.

WHAT A PRAT! He seems to think he is a hero after caring for his daughter for the first time since she was born 16 months ago! I'd be to embarrassed to admit that.
Vomiting at finding out he was about to be a dad AFTER a year of TTC, being detached and cold at becoming a father after what sounds like a difficult birth. He sounds a great catch.
Especially loved the part were as soon as his wife is gone he invites friends around until 11pm and they drink a couple of bottles of wine. Bet his wife loved that part.

I expect that's why she okayed the article..."Oh yes dear, you can write honestly about your feelings and experiences wrt our daughter, that's fine...yes, do include your pathetic reaction to news of my pregnancy, and don't forget to talk about the drinking and choking. You have a duty to your readership, after all."

LOL Cyteen do you think she was thinking that's it dear make a complete fool of yourself and let all our friends and family know the real you whilst thinking pay back for the vomiting, lazy arsed parenting, drinking whilst in being in sole care of our baby and the chocking.

oh...

Before seeing this thread I found the article rather charming...

I thought the choking and drinking were all part of the proof "He was a mess and pretty irresponsible" and then he ends up completely changed by the experience of spending time alone with his daughter due to an unexpected overwhelming feeling of very deep love for her.

In my case that overwhelming feeling of love happened at the scan seeing that tiny human like form - it really hit me "This is parent love and it is amazing.". For my DH it happened the first time dd smiled. He hadn't understood until that moment why I cried so much at the scan... but after sobbing for Enland at her smile - he got it!!!

OK in the article - it seems quite late for the 'love attack' for want of a better name to kick in - but I think that is actually what he is writing about... not about how great he is for looking after his daughter for a day and a night but what it feels like to realise this feeling of love and highlighting that it doesn't always happen at birth or at the pregnancy test stage of being a parent!

Of course DH and I have both felt similar sensations later - for me I felt it again when she first walked, when I kiss her good night and more recently when she held a lamb at a farm. However, nothing as mindblowing as that first realisation - this is my child and I love her in a way I never knew I could.

A friend of mine said she never got that feeling...her love for her son is more slow paced and ever growing. She never had the can't stop crying, buzz and amazing high of that delicious first completely overwhelming "love attack"(Does this moment have an official name because I find "love attack" very lacking? - best I could think of - sorry). So maybe what Dueren describes here is a bit risky because it doesn't happen to everyone.

Perhaps infact it has just happened to me, DH and Nick Duerden - However knowing what I know about all the parents I know in rl and here on mn too I do seriously doubt it!

TBH the chocking incident just didn't read true to me, the child pointing to chest whilst chocking yeah right they are either paralyzed with fear, passed out or hysterical arm waving. Plus those kindy egg halfs are rather large if she had that stuck in her throat I just cant see him tipping her back (the WORST thing you can do when a child is chocking) and hooking it out with a pinky.

Oooh there's a lot of judging and jumping to conclusions about other mothers on this thread.

I didn't leave my babies overnight when they were under 18 months because I was breastfeeding, didn't have to and didn't want to. During the day, and during the evening I made sure I got "me time". Inevitably it was limited when they were small and my DH was working full time. When I worked, my DS1 went to a CM two days a week from about nine months. I was no longer working when my DS2 was a toddler but I still got him a place for two short mornings at nursery. I always managed to get my hair cut. I really can't see what that's got to do with not wanting to spend a night away from a young baby.

I don't think I'm unusual or controlling or infantalising my husband. But babies are babies for such a short time and I enjoyed my time with them. I was quite happy for my DH to take them out by himself from quite a young age and he has a fantastic relationship with both of them.

I don't quite get this 'I never felt the need to leave dc with someone else'. As far as my dc's are concerned, their Dad isn't 'someone else', he's as much their parent as I am.

And why would I direct what happened over the day, more than him? Or have to Think to involve dh? Any more than he had to think to involve me?

That sort of implies that the woman is in charge naturally from the start and knows what to do instinctively.

Didn't happen like that to us. We were both new to it, both a bit clueless, both a bit scared, so we pitched in together. I didn't know what to tell him to do any more than he knew what to tell me to do. We both learnt from doing.

Except after ds's birth when I was stitched up, so dh had to do the early nappy changes and winding and bathing, because I couldn't lift anything.

Thingone I agree on that it is normal and acceptable not to have left your child overnight with anyone at that age, but the article makes it quite clear that he hasn't ever cared for his daughter and that he never made any concerted effort to bond.

BonsoirAnna on Mon 04-May-09 10:13:44
"Lots of women choose men as fathers because they are good genetic material rather than good carers."

That seems to me to be the same thing. Caring is precisely the genetic quality I would like to see spreading through the world. I have done my bit to spread dh's caring genes!!

Has it never occurred to anyone that a dad might feel the same about leaving his baby overnight as a mum? I breastfed, but when it came to bonding, I really don't think there was any difference between dh and me.

I have nothing original to say about this piece - I detested it. It was the strange admission that they had been trying for a baby for a year but he wretches when she becomes pregnant. The way his partner feels compelled to stock up the fridge and do all the ironing before leaving him in charge. His implied heroism at taking on the task of caring for his child for a night.

I don't think the article has anything to do with loving or not loving his daughter enough and everything to do with his own solipsistic attitude to life. I cannot imagine how ghastly his book must be (or how such dreary gibbering ever gets published).

My DH was hands on from the get go...he gave DD1 her first bath!...tbh..I did have to do some cringing and leave the room a few times because I couldn't bare to watch ..but in the end he was definantely better for it..and so were my DDs

Because of his job, DH has been away for longish periods (up to two weeks) from when DS was tiny, whereas I've only been away overnight. But that's just how it's turned out. The point is if I did go away - and when I have overnight - and if I wanted to go for longer - it's not a big deal for DP to look after his own son.

I don't think mothers are obliged to go away if they don't want to - but both parents should be thinking of childcare as something they do and know how to do, from birth.

Yes lala the being sick thing - diddums! That sounded like classic attention-seeking and jealousy to me. In fact something about the article could also be read as slightly aggressive - kind of "so you swanned off and left me with the baby well ha ha I got drunk and she almost choked, serves you right.".

OMG I've just noticed I called my DP "DH" back there!
Slip of the keyboard!

'So are you saying that I should go out for the day, doing stuff I don't really want to do, just so that dh can be alone with the children? '

Yes, I think so-you get to do it, so it seems very unfair that he doesn't. It is completely different when the other isn't there and it gives them chance to develop a relationship completely of their own.
I can't believe that anyone would rather do a supermarket shop, or buy themselves new clothes by themselves-rather than with a baby in tow. If you really prefer it, I think you should force yourself out, even if you just have coffee with a friend.
If I was to collapse and be rushed off to hospital it would be comforting to know that DH could cope on his own, and more importantly that the DCs were quite happy because they were used to it.
I have an equal partner, he does things differently but it is far better than having to OK it all with me first as the senior carer!

I think you make a good point there pisces.

For all those mums who claim they can't bear to spend a minute apart from their children because it's so much fun... if you feel that way, then aren't you going to let your partner share some of that fun?

My dh cooks, he bathes the children more than I do, he plays with them, he puts them to bed, all while I am in the house. I know he would cope without me, extremely well.

I don't think women should tell other women how to run their and their families' lives. We are perfectly happy as we are (most of the time).

And as somebody said further down, the time when they are small passes so quickly anyway, I don't want to force myself to do something I don't want to do.

I do every now and then go out during the day, but only for a couple of hours, and only once every one or two months.

If I had a choice it wouldn't be for me to be away from the children but for dh to be able to spend more time with us, all of us together.