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Nick Duerden in the Guardian - His wife "leaves me fully alone with my daughter for the first time" at 16 months!

492 replies

beanieb · 02/05/2009 23:57

piece

Is this normal, for a father to not be left with their child alone until they are over a year old?

OP posts:
scotagm · 03/05/2009 22:24

It is totally abnormal(to me) to never want a break - your children will love their time with their other parent.

Leaving a child whilst you have to work away from home is normal and helps build healthy relationships. Before you judge, I'm talking teacher on unpaid residentials - not high flying paid for business trips?

Some of you never want a break? I question this to my core.

TheLadyEvenstar · 03/05/2009 22:25

Hercules, honestly??? No, I love being with ds's I did all my going out in the days of being a single parent with ds1. Now I am more than happy to be with my 2 ds's.

hercules1 · 03/05/2009 22:27

I can understand no nights away especially when breastfeeding but I cannot understand not wanting to have time away during the day. If I hadnt had the opportunities to be away when they were younger I know I'd have suffered from depression. That's probably extreme I know but I couldnt have coped.

emkana · 03/05/2009 22:27

It defends how you define a break! When then children are in bed and I am on MN, I get a break. I get an hour here and there, but I don't want prolonged seperations from my children. I really really enjoy time together as a family and would prefer days spent together to days spent alone.

TheLadyEvenstar · 03/05/2009 22:28

I get a break when he naps and of an evening when they are both asleep there is time enough for me to relax.

I chose to be a parent and I love every minute of it. Even more so the second time round.

onebatmother · 03/05/2009 22:28

dp working. all the time.
me bfing till 2+

I don't think this is empirically weird. Guy sounds like an arse, and he's writing in the genre 'lads having to grow up', but it's really not intrinsically weird or infantilizing to the father that a mother hasnt' left her baby for a day until s/he's 16 months, I don't think.

DD went to childminder when we were both working.

emkana · 03/05/2009 22:28

Having said that, I do also go out in the evenings on my own/with friends, but the children are in bed then anyway.

TheLadyEvenstar · 03/05/2009 22:29

Emkana. SNAP i am just the same.

Laugs · 03/05/2009 22:34

spicemonster I think many relationships evolve this way because of the mother being in charge while on maternity leave. They both start from 'zero' on the day the baby is born. After 2 weeks, both parents probably have the same amount of idea of what goes on, but then the father returns to work and the mother has another 8 months to get used to doing the majority of parenting. I think by the time she goes back to work (and this is often part-time/ not at all), she just has far more of a clue about what the baby requires and how the jobs in the house fit around that. I'm not saying this is the way it should be, but we love, on MN, to blame women for infantilising men. It can be hard, when you feel you are just about keeping it together, to see the bigger picture and to ask for/ demand equal parenting.

I think extending paternity leave might help with this.

piscesmoon · 03/05/2009 22:36

DH and I have always been equal partners-I think it would be very unfair on him if I was the one in charge and he wasn't to be trusted! Apart from breast feeding he did the lot from the start. I think it is good to let the DCs develop relationships with others e.g it is lovely for grandparents to have them on their own without you hovering in the background.

TheLadyEvenstar · 03/05/2009 22:40

DS1 has always stayed with my mum since he was 3 weeks old. DS2 has never been away from me since we came out of hospital when he was 5 days old. I do everything for him that he may need. And when dp is changing him and ds2 escapes i finish him off and get him dressed.

DS1 belongs to both of us....but ds2 is mine not my choice but he is.

atigercametotea · 03/05/2009 22:42

for goodness sake!
What a twat and why hasn't his girlfriend encouraged him to do more up until now? Annoyed at them as a couple ---aaarrgh!

Why hasn't he got up in the night before? What's the big deal? He's her dad!
And a two page article on 'wooo, look at me caring for my own child'!?

No shit sherlock, take a look around the park you took your daughter to - are they writing in the Guardian too?

TheLadyEvenstar · 03/05/2009 22:44

But some women like to get up to their dc in the night. I know i did and still do if ds2 wakes up, although while dp worked i co-slept and now ds2 comes and gets into my bed if he wakes up.

spicemonster · 03/05/2009 22:47

Laugs - I'm sure it's very easy to slip into the groove of the baby being the mother's with the dad hovering in the background as support. But I think it is incumbent upon us to guard against that. If we want men to feel that they are equally responsible for parenting our children, then we have to make a conscious effort to involve them, however hard that feels.

I know I'm talking from the luxurious (!) perspective of someone without a partner but I read so many threads on these boards complaining about men not taking an equal share in the child-rearing/household. It's not really surprising that they do that really if they get cut out of things entirely in the early days to be honest.

Laugs · 03/05/2009 23:07

spicemonster I totally agree with you that we should guard against it. Everywhere in the media men are blasted for not taking responsibility, but then often they are not allowed to take true responsibility for their children in the early days.

I was just explaining why I think it happens, probably against most people's better judgement. It's a bit of a slippery slope I think. Like I said, DH was a SAHD from DD turning 10 months. It was just for 9 months, but I think it was very good for all of us. Before that, he had cut down to 4 days a week and cared for DD one day while I worked. We started off on a very equal footing. Now, he is back working full-time (unfortunately) and I am at home full-time, though I do work from home around 12 hrs a week. I can see it would be really really easy to slip into a 'main carer' midset, because, basically, that's what I am. I'm now pregnant and I feel sad DH is unlikely to be able to spend as much time with the new baby as he did with DD when she was young. Most men ever get that opportunity, though.

I do think it's important for women to stake their claim for free time. I don't know many men with problems taking it. In our household, we each get a lie in one day of the weekend and one night off a week (if you don't want to go out, you can take time off at home). It's not much and we rarely have babysitters, but it's something. Our lie ins, especially, are particularly closely guarded. I once tried to pay DH £20 to have an extra lie in and he still said no. We're far from perfect though - I think it's easy to judge, but a hard one to get right.

Laugs · 03/05/2009 23:11

re-reading that I realise I sound a bit control freakish! Maybe I am, but my two closest friends with young DCs NEVER get a lie in. Their DHs don't even seem to have realised they might like one, as it's become the norm that they get up with the child. I know which I'd prefer.

onebatmother · 03/05/2009 23:15

all of these things might/might not be possible if you have a stable, non-freelance, 9-till-6-or-7 jobs. But if not, it's all a lot less straightforward.

StayFrosty · 03/05/2009 23:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

moondog · 03/05/2009 23:35

Aren't they just Frosty?
Christ knows why I am still buying, with Pavlovian urge to stove in face of fools like this that every article elicits.

nooka · 04/05/2009 05:39

I think if he had said first time overnight, or first time for an extended period then well fair enough. But the implication is that he has never spent time alone with his child without some sort of oversight "fully alone". Which I do think is odd. Clearly that is how some mothers want it, but I think an attitude of "its my baby" is terribly sad for everyone. The mother misses on any free time (for things like haircuts for example), the father misses on bonding with his child (and it is different when you are on your own), and most importantly the child misses on bonding with the father. I really can't see any benefits, and I think it is also a really good idea to make sure that your child is comfortable enough with another carer so that if there was an emergency and you couldn't be with them you would feel OK that they would be happy with someone else.

But then I WOTH and my dh is the SAHD (my children are eight and nine though )

piscesmoon · 04/05/2009 07:19

I agree Nooka, a lot of mothers seem very possessive with their DCs, as if there is some virtue in the fact that they never spend time away because they are 'devoted' to them. I think in these cases it isn't the father's fault that he then seems incompetent, and it is a shame that he misses out so badly.

BouncingTurtle · 04/05/2009 07:29

I think ds was about 8months before I left him with DH for a whole day!

But it wasn't that I didn't trust him it was just I was bfing, and crap at expressing, and ds was still feeding every couple of hours.
I'd left him for a whole morning or an afternoon with dh since he was a few weeks old, and there had been full days as when I was ill in bed with migraine when all I did was feed ds, DH would do everything else with him.
Never once has it crossed my mind to not trust ds with his dad - ds is HIS child! He does do things differently to me, but I don't think it matters that much!

The article was thoroughly self indulgent. I mean WTF - talk about non news! I think I'll write an article for the Guardian about how "I managed not to run out of clean crockery". What an acheivement that is.
Totally pointless - as if no other mum or dad managed what he has done every single day...

violethill · 04/05/2009 10:10

'I had a child with my dp because we both wanted to be parents'

scotagm sums it up really.

Yes, of course a woman is likely to spend more actual hours with a child in the early weeks as she has maternity leave. But this doesn't have to mean the father is incompetent or should lack confidence in his ability to be a parent and look after his child FGS.

Who are these women who decide that a man is good enough to have a child with, but not good enough to look after that child without her hovering over him? Weird! very controlling and very unfair on the child. Children build up different relationships with people. Of course it's great to do loads as a family too, but the dynamics are different when one parent is one-to-one with the child, and children have a right to experience this and for the relationship to flourish.

I'm not saying every parent should leave their child overnight at a specific age, because obviously everyone's circumstances are different, but I think it's seriously worrying if a mother literally cannot bring herself to leave her child alone with its father for more than a few minutes. It says far more about her needs than the child's.

Oh and while we're at it, can we knock this myth on the head that somehow if you're bf that means you can't possibly leave your child? Plenty of mums express and their child is fed exclusively breastmilk but with the added bonus that dad can feed the baby too! I bf mine til they were toddling around, and managed fine with leaving them with their dad, and also with the nursery when I went to work!

BonsoirAnna · 04/05/2009 10:13

"Who are these women who decide that a man is good enough to have a child with, but not good enough to look after that child without her hovering over him?"

Lots of women choose men as fathers because they are good genetic material rather than good carers. Nothing odd about that, though of course it would be nice if all men were good carers in addition to their other qualities!

RaspberryBlower · 04/05/2009 10:24

Violethill - we tried very hard to get dd to take a bottle. I have a cupboard load of different kinds of bottles to prove it. But she wouldn't, so we gave up.

This thread has turned into another example of mothers making other mothers feel bad. I now feel inadequate that I haven't managed to go away for a fun filled weekend by myself yet.

Wanting to be close to dd and to feel in control in the early days was also a symptom of my PND. Not healthy, I know, but not something I cold really help at the time.