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Original poster

Nick Duerden in the Guardian - His wife "leaves me fully alone with my daughter for the first time" at 16 months!

492 replies

beanieb · 02/05/2009 23:57

piece

Is this normal, for a father to not be left with their child alone until they are over a year old?

OP posts:
IorekByrnison · 08/05/2009 15:31

When I was pregnant with dd I remember dp making polite conversation with an older father of our acquaintance and asking him if he had any tips for fatherhood. Our acquaintance thought for a moment then said "I seem to remember there is a particularly nasty bit between about 5 and 6pm - I would avoid that at all costs".

Oh how we all laughed then.

I'm sure it is entirely coincidental that dp is rarely home before 7.30pm now.

(Actually dp is thorougly excellent father but just has that sort of job.)

Would be interested though to hear from family breadwinners honestly admitting that their urge to work long hours is partly fuelled by the attractions of staying in a quiet, orderly, child-free environment for a few extra hours a day.

dustbuster · 08/05/2009 15:36

There was some research a few years ago which showed that men worked more hours after having their first child. The charitable explanation is that they want to 'provide' for their family. But I think in many cases (obviously not your DP, but my XP!) it is a form of escape.

So true about the 5-6pm slot! I remember walking round and round and round with DD when she was tiny. It is nice now though, because it is when DD and I get home from work/CMs.

Voltaire · 08/05/2009 16:23

LOL at nasty bit between about 5pm and 6pm. We call it ugly hour.

I've yet to come across a woman who has petitioned a good father for divorce. I think men can be pretty rubbish in almost every other respect and it will be overlooked if they are good parents. And men, if you can whip around with the hoover at the same time, so much the better.

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 08/05/2009 17:22

More than I'd realised Trill, and yes I often prefer to talk about anything but parenting and family when on here.

Nibbly · 08/05/2009 17:25

Nonparent- I agree with Merrylegs- When I was a non parent, I had MUCH better things to do than bang on obsessively about other peoples kids- Go on- book a holiday somewhere more exciting than Center Parcs, or go to the cinema, just on a whim...

IorekByrnison · 08/05/2009 17:29

Surely nonparent was a kindly friend of ND's who had come in disguise to give some support, as opposed than a random person with nothing better to do?

Voltaire · 08/05/2009 17:39

Oh yes to nonparent being a decoy. Nonparent is his friend from the childfree forum of which ND is surely a member, still?

Merrylegs · 08/05/2009 17:40

Aha - a conspiracy theory.

I like it.

But surely, surely Nick Duh-dun would not stoop so low....

(Ah, shall miss this thread when it dies...)

Voltaire · 08/05/2009 17:41

I once pretended to a hairdresser that I didn't have any children (I had 2 at the time) as I really didn't want to talk about them.

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 08/05/2009 17:49

Voltaire, I say that to many people, hairdresser, beautician, etc.

I once said it to an electrician that came round then had to backtrack hen I realised it was obvious children lived here.

Nonparent · 08/05/2009 18:31

i was just coming back (been polishing the camper van) to say thanks to lio for posting that link (v interesting) and to merrylegs for the interesting topics of discussions ;) all i would hope to add to but it seems i've labelled as some kind of decoy. Call me what you like but i am not a decoy and don't know anyone that writes for the guardian.

as for discussing kids, yes some people do and i can't understand that either but mostly it wouldn't be aimed at the kids just at the parents that let them do what they like. All i want is to be able to admit my choice without feeling like a second class citizen, which i am thankful (and surprised) that you let me do.

Maybe i'll bring some more nps with me and we can dispel this myth of non-acceptance?

SummatAnNowt · 08/05/2009 18:51

both of my siblings are childfree by choice, they just get on with their lives and don't feel like second class citizens!

georgimama · 08/05/2009 18:54

I've missed the fun. I will look out for use of the phrase "arse gravy" in the Guardian Family section soon (actually I won't, because like my other guilty pleasure, the Daily Mail, I only read selected bits which are particularly good examples of the respective genres when pointed to them by you good people).

If that really was Nick, he sounded like a lot more fun, and a lot less of a wordy twat, than he did in the article. Notes for future Nick - don't do your own editing for publicity articles.

Nonparent · 08/05/2009 18:57

that is really nice to know summat. maybe attitudes are finally changing then. a lot of others, including myself get some very insensitive comments or just dismissed and told we'll change our minds, or the best and most common - is that we're selfish for not having them.

Voltaire · 08/05/2009 19:08

nonparent - we were only joking about the decoy thing. Welcome to Mumsnet and do bring your childfree friends over here.... most of us Mumsnetters don't want to talk about children either.

Voltaire · 08/05/2009 19:09

TDWP - LOL at lying to the visiting electrician.

Nonparent · 08/05/2009 19:15

wow thanks voltaire. i'm not sure what they'll talk about now if they know everyone is so open-minded here and i'm sure there'll be some that want to stir a bit, so might not be such a good idea.

lying that you haven't got kids, that is one i haven't heard before - i've heard of people lying when they've asked why they haven't got kids. i'm sure i'll be in trouble for mixing with the other side ;)

Maybe i'll be brave enough to start a thread one day - would that be allowed or would i laughed/terrorised/embarrassed out of the place?

Babieseverywhere · 08/05/2009 19:21

"there'll be some that want to stir a bit"
Definately send those posters over, Mumsnet posters grade trolls and adopt the better ones

Merrylegs · 08/05/2009 19:22

Thread away NonP - just make sure to bring your hard hat if you start one in Am I being Unreasonable. It's almost a given you will be flamed there.

And out of interest - do people really ask you in RL why you haven't got kids? What kind of people? I find that quite unbelievable! Why should they care?

Stick around - you obviously have some interesting tales to share.

morningpaper · 08/05/2009 19:28

And out of interest - do people really ask you in RL why you haven't got kids? What kind of people? I find that quite unbelievable! Why should they care?

Yes I agree, that is baffling. How fecking RUDE.

Robespierre · 08/05/2009 19:49

Nonparent, I'm sure there have been threads on Mn where people with large families speak about having been faced with accusatory questioning about their decision to have more than a couple of children. There are plenty of people in the world who are just itching to find a high horse to clamber up on. If they meet someone with no children they will posture about the 'selfishness' of that decision, and then they will do the same about the contrary decision to breed.

When it comes down to it, I think that the decision to have any children whatever number is the most selfish one. Existence is a helluva big decision to make on someone else's behalf.

Nonparent · 08/05/2009 19:53

haha thanks fot the advice Merrylegs. And yes, people do ask, all the time. They don't ask if, they ask when. I just say we'll see what happens because i can't always deal with the lectures or the questions. I suppose it's natural when they see a married couple. anyway, i'm getting used to it. thanks for the welcome and perhaps i will get a hard hat next week and pop back for more ;) have a good weekend all.

smallchange · 08/05/2009 19:55

We're forever being asked if we're stopping at one/when are we having another.

People are just nosy feckers.

Nonparent · 08/05/2009 19:56

yes very true robespierre but it does amaze me how some people can't see both sides of a situation. ah well, it would probably be boring if they did.

WinkyWinkola · 08/05/2009 20:04

I don't find it at all offensive if people ask me if I'm having more children.

Nor would I find it offensive if I didn't have any and people asked why not.

Ultimately, it is none of people's business yes, but to me, it's not such a big deal to ask about major life choices like that. I think it's actually quite natural to ask. To me, it's like people asking what I want to be when I grow up or where I'd like to live or how I'm doing at work.

I realise it's not the same for everyone.

**Of course, if someone has difficulty conceiving it could lead to hurt feelings and embarrassment. That's a separate issue.