Demonstration against Israeli bombing of Gaza in London on Saturday.

[SmilleysPeople]

If anyone is intersted.

It's at 12.30pm along Embankment, nearest tubes Embankment and Charing Cross.

It's being organised by Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, Stop the War Coaltion and numerous other groups.

I will bump this sporadically, but if anyone else would like to help promote this, plaese bump too.

I will be there.

However, I can hear your anger, your defensiveness. I understand that you feel that we are siding with a terrorist organisation against a threatened nation - and a people with a long history of repression and injustice.

It is interesting to know how you have understood what I said. In a dialogue it is important to know that what one says and means may not be (at all) what another person hears or understands.

We all carry our own opinions and prejudices around through which we filter the world, you and I both. And everyone else.

That's interesting Donk, sonce you don't know what my beliefs/opinions/knowledge and prejudices are

Apparent 'insights' like saying the response of both sides is not constructive are not insights at all. It's mearly statement of fact.

If both sides are being unreasonable what is the use of taking sides?

Maybe Relate would do a better job, eh?

LisaLisa
My quotes meant I was attempt to understand - not condone - why Hamas was elected over Fatah, and to understand what effect the violence is having on Palestinians. Without understanding what hope is their of any effective dialogue?

Surely to stereotype an entire group of people
as murderous is to deny their individuality and that there are undoubtedly (because I have met some!) those who are not murderous. When we lose sight of the individuality and humanity of others, that is when inhumanity becomes possible.

rev - it should be very upsetting to you to know that the people you champion and defend don't feel that way about you. So on your national day of sorrow when thousands of your compatriots were bombed out of existance they cared enough to celebrate and dance on their graves figuratively speaking. It should bother you very very much.

"have sympathy for these human beings".....Having failed to equate teh paelstinians masses with the terrorists they elect how to have sympathy? Should I sympathise that their houses are destroyed whilst they everyday fire missiles at nurseires and hospitals in sderot trying deliberately to kill children and hospital patients.

How much sympathy did you have/the general british public have for the average german during WW2? I sugest that the opinion and mindset of the general british public was that Germany had started this war and we needed to win it and if innocent Germans got killed in teh process they only needed to question their elected leaders as to the mess in which they found themeselves.

During WW2 how many rallies/protests werre held against Churchill accusing him of disproportionate response and asking him for assurances that whlst bombing he would also supply medicines????!!!! For goodness sake , this is War and Israel has no choice but to bomb Hamas into submission once and for all . It can hardly pussyfoot about bunging medicine through the front lines can it. Stop applying one standard to Isarel and one for everyone else.

Actually , Israel does use a different standard at great risk to its soldiers and which is being deeply questioned at the moment. Before bombing a buildling where weaponry /terrorists are suspected of hiding , it issues calls to mobile phones - yes that is right - moible phones of palestinians known to live thre - warning them to leave the immediate area. It follows this up with megaphone announcements warning everyone to leave the area. then it carried out its actions.

Do hamas do that?> When was the last warning they or their ilk delivered?

MT

That's interesting Donk, sonce you don't know what my beliefs/opinions/knowledge and prejudices are

Surely that is what I am acknowledging?
And trying to understand better from your reponses to the posts of myself and others.

LisaLisa
Incidentally there were people in the second world war who worked in the frontlines, unarmed, helping the injured, regardless of nationality.

They were very influential in my youth and uprbringing.

No rev - the bit where you said it is not upsetting to you that palestinians are anti western. It should be upsetting - deeply upsetting as it is ludicrous to champion a people who intrinsically hate you . And make no mistake as to why they hate you or if so which is why I asked you in that intitial thread if you were a journalist as they are excellent courses offered in the Islamic University on how to court the western media ever since they discovered how effecitve it could be. sure they appear reasonable and even , if you are really daft, peace loving but please, again , look who they voted for. Enough said. And as for Dresden...... I'm sure glad Britian won the war Dresden or not or I would'nt be here and neither would many many mumsnetters. Start a war and take the consequesnces and don't bleat during or after it about disproportionate conseuqences.
And if you don't think this is a war what do you think it is?

Donk - there are always people in any conflict situation who strive to hlp wounded in both sides. However they would have been much much much better placed to have used their admirable sense of duty to work for the freedom and lives of the 6 million Jews who were murdrered just for being jewish. The world was nice and silent then wasn't it?

lisalisa you have a selective memory.

I understand you speak from anger because this is a subject close to home but you are treating Israel and Palestinians with a double standard.
That's what most people are doing.

Agree that enough is enough but it's an impasse.

If Israel does not recognise the palestinians as an equal party in the negotiation then Israel will always live in fear. You can not subjugate people and expect them to respect you and trust you.
What you get is a massive vote for Hamas. well done.

Israel want to take the moral high ground. Fine. But live up to it then.

War
Exactly - but obviously your and my response to this are a world apart, as are our backgrounds and experiences. So I must resist war - and its consequence because of my beliefs.

After all as Christian, I am taught
Thou shalt not kill
(as are Moslems and Jews - peoples of the book)
There are no exceptions given.
No dispensations.

LisaLisa
And many of the same group who sent people into the front lines, also helped organise the transport of Jewish children to Britain to escape the holocaust.
They were not silent.

They were Quakers
Its a bloody scary heritage to try to live up to.
And I know that I don't always manage to...
or ever.
But I keep on trying.

Thanks Rev
Talk to you later

rev- I think your last comment was a bit harsh, just because you have been there it doesn't mean you know more about a situation. LisaLisa has made some excellent points, obviously has a in depth knowledge of the history and facts and some posters on the thread have conceded as much.

So, if (the royal) you concede that BOTH sides are acting aggressively then how can you show support for one and not the other? This is what doesn't sit right with me.