Demonstration against Israeli bombing of Gaza in London on Saturday.

[SmilleysPeople]

If anyone is intersted.

It's at 12.30pm along Embankment, nearest tubes Embankment and Charing Cross.

It's being organised by Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, Stop the War Coaltion and numerous other groups.

I will bump this sporadically, but if anyone else would like to help promote this, plaese bump too.

I will be there.

Thank you antique. It goes without saying in my opinion but it seems people have no understanding of the facts.
Glad to see some do have a dispassionate reading on history.

Lisa here we go again. It's not a view that's been offered to me. It's a thought I have had myself using my brain.
And it is factually true.

So once again I repeat myself. OK but not at the expense of a people who had nothing to do with it.

Lisa, you seem to be saying they will hate us anyway (which they didn't actually, jews and palestinaind lived peacefuly together before the state of Israel was created and the 1948 war)so wewill may as well go on killing them and continue the injustices anyway?

I say, do the right thing, give thme less reason to hate Israel and the west, many will eventaully stop hating, most just want peace and prosperity for thier families, like all humans. Do you think arabs are just natuarlly hateful humans? differnt to you and I? I can assure you, and I do meam it as assurance, they ar enot.

There is a frightening fundementalist extremist islam movemnet rising in the arab world, but this is not directly linked to Palestine, they just use it, so if this frightens you, as it does me, then give them less reason to hate, with this many will abandon the hate filled extremeism they have turned to in desparation, some won't, I agree, but it will be many many less and without a central justification and recruiting propogamda.

A just settlemant would make the world a safer place for us all. Not safe. Safer.

The extremism, would still be there, but Israel would have right on its side, which it does not now.

Slim22 - it didn't have to be at teh expense of the palestinians did it? No-one told them to leave in 1948. They did nto want to stay in a Jewish governed state so they left. The point is though that in 1948 it was not a palestinian state anywya -they were not the sovereign leaders of the state so why the analagy that the land was "stolen " from them? I can't see any evidence that there was a palestinian goverment/ parliament in 1948 whch was told that it had to become a Jewish government now and that all houses had to be vacated . That just didn't happen did it?

sorry slim, not saying i personally want to live by OT, just that if Muslims accept Jewish figures as prophets...etc.
I agrre tho Slim that Israel should return right of way over the Palestinian's land and stop settlements.

Thanks for explanation Sputnik.

Palestinians' land! [pedant]

i guess the British 'stole' the land. As they did in so many colonies. and they definitely had no right to it [unlike the Jews]

Lisa they left because they felt threatened. There was no Palestinian state, true, but those people had lived there for generations, under the British and before that under the Turks.

I grew up in the troubles of N.I. and still remember the constant sense of tension that everyone lived with. I remember the polarisation and the brutalisation that the troubles caused. (And the huge sense of relief when it finished)
Multiply that by 100 and I can imagine what it must be like for both Israelis and Palestinians.

Who in their right mind blows up children? No-one in their 'right' mind that's who. They are ALL brutalised and desperately need outside help to stop this because the carnage only multiplies the brutalisation of everyone involved.

My husband is muslim and he is currently hating Jews and I shall be trying to talk him out of that today because he isn't usually that kind of person.
I've been talking to an egyptian friend and her husband is so upset that when he comes in from work he watches al jazeera all night and won't answer the phone. They are angry that their government isn't helping somehow.

By Lisa 'No-one told them to leave in 1948. They did nto want to stay in a Jewish governed state so they left.'

Your ignorance is frightening.

They left in fear that they were all going to be wiped out, following the murder of an entire village by the Israeli army. Apperantly actually exgagerated even, by the Israeliu army, to creat the fear and make them flee.

Some may even call it ethnic cleansing. They wanted rid of as many arabs as posible.

They fled leaving thier homes and possessions in total terror, going to refugee camps, whoch they thought would be temporary, they are still in them 60 years on.

Lias, I seriously suggest, you read some history about the creation of Israel and the history of the Palestinains, from several sources.

Start with looking up Deir Yassim, the name of the village which was wiped out and created the terror and acaused the exodus.

The Palestinas call it the 'nabka' it means catastrophe.

this could be interesting...
Israel allegedly fires into Lebanon

It is Sky news though

but Sputnik - so had the Jews lived there for generations. If they left because they felt threatened is that Israel's fault? No-one threatened them. They just did not want to live in a Jewish State.

I heard that there are many protests in Egypt Super Silly...

Lisa 'No-one threatened them. They just did not want to live in a Jewish State.'

Please, have you read my last post? You are spouting ignorant nonsense I am afraid. read my post, then read the, widely ageed, history,

Lisa now I will correct my previous apology saying I did not want to belittle you.

Yes Oh yes I do. because you are totally IGNORANT.

I respect that you stand by your people and your opinions. But you are a frighteningly blind to reasoning.

Antique - I am afriad I do not view histroy in such simplistic terms as you do in black and white. I too can quote towns and settlements destroyed by the arabs during the subsequent years of war. It is inadequate to say that a UN mandate to Israel to establish a Jewish government and state created such fear in the hearts of the palestinains that they had to flee and that is Israel's fault. They fled partly to espcae the 1948 war of independence fearing the arab bombs/troops etc and were hoodwinked by their arab brothers into believeing that the fledgling state would be defeated and they could come out of hiding and get rid of hte Jews. When the arabs lost they reamined where they were. Again, Israel's fault?

Again , I find myself spending much too much time here. I originally posted on either this thread or the other thread to enquire about the Ummah website. Only Slim22 has expressed a view on this whihc is a shame. I shall therefore have to reserve judgment on it as Slim22 has said she is not a muslim believer and so cannot really pass judgement on this site anywya.

What is intertsting though is that so many critics of Israel have yet to post on the other thread I started advcoating a 2 state solution. I wonder why?

No Sputnik - but independence for Cornwall would be good!

Read the second half of the post where I said the International community has to start from where the situation is now and get the best result it can.

Lisa you get a far wider grasp of the conflict knowing both sides stories.
You may still come to the same beliefs you hold now
I know several Israeli Jewish people who are vehemently opposed to the seige of Gaza.
And a few more who are adamant it is the Palestinians who should be wiped out...
I was an adamant anti Israel person until I read more about 5 years ago.
Now I am more circumspect and although still oppose many of Israels actions (the repeated ignoring of UN resolutions for one )
I can also see that a two state solution is the only possible option to give equality to both sides.
I just wish they could bloody sort it out...
Will take mega compromise on both sides.

Glad to see we agree on something Piffle. I also think a 2 state solution is perfect. I am in favour of giving the palestinians pertty much what they want - land , anything. Of course they would have their own government and army etc - i am tallkng compelte and total independence like britain and france. Isarel does not want to be in charge of this problem.

At least then - and at the very very leastr - if 20 yrs in future Israel is bombed by Palestine ( the separate independent country) israel could respnd to defend hereself much the same way she would and could if those bombs came from say syrain army or iranian army.

Lisa I CAN pass a valid judgement because I KNOW what I'm talking about.

I use my knowledge to pass this Judgement and do not speak out of blind indoctrination.

can so much be said about you?

It's just too tedious shifting from one post to another. You only fled this post because you could not sustain a constructive argument yesterday.
So you went and initiated another senseless ramble in a discussion that was doing very well without your input.

it's all still going on I see.

Lisalisa - you say you would favour a 2 state solution and approve of giving land to the Palestinians. What land, exactly?

and what is your position on the occupied territories, including illegal settlements in and around the west bank area? do you think they should be dismantled?

Such an optimistic view Lisa?
Legitimise them so we can legally bomb fuck out of them in 2 decades time

The two state solution has to include rights to Jerusalem though
Sticking point 1

Slim22 - ooh yuo are getting heated.

First - I did not flee the thread at all. I had to pick up my chldren from school. That has to come first .

And the comment about you not being able to pass judgement - that was not meant as an insult you know. My first post on the subject was asking muslims if this is what they believed and those quotes were true. You then replied that you were a non believer meaning that you cannot give an opinion as a muslim believer!! You can't have it both ways. Anyway it wasn't meant to be insluting. Just a fact . Much as if you said to me that I could'nt give an opinion as a catholic. You'd be right. Apologies if offence caused .

And as for "the discussion continuing quite nicely without [me]" - well I suppose it is easier to debate without anyone challenging your views, isn't it????!