Baby P

[GeraldineMumsnet]

Hi, to make it easier for people who are finding this subject very distressing, we're going to keep all Baby P posts in one thread. If you'd like to discuss this subject, then here is the thread to do so. We'll go on the other threads and link to this one. Thanks very much.

"Such was public complacency about infanticide by the mid-1860s that the Journal of Social Science reported that the police thought "no more about finding the dead body of a child in the street than picking up a dead dog or cat".

So were parents like Esther Lack, a London woman who slit her three children's throats yet escaped the gallows, really getting away with murder? Or were these small, dis carded bodies instances of the general brutality of life for many? "

article about Victorian child murder

It's only google - easy to use, even for people who get off on fantasies of killing and hurting people.

unfounded tripe -maybe you should read Gateau

Jojo I dont think it is quite a simple as they kill therefore they are insane. I am not sure of the assessment procedures but certainly people are assessed to insure that they are mentally stable before they stand trial.

If you are deemed to be a Psychopath you will never get better and will probably be locked up in a secure mental institution for the rest of your life. Perhaps someone knows more about Mental Health and can explain further.

Its common sense to assume more children were abused in the past - for example belts were commonly used to "discipline" children and it wasn't even seen as abuse

Many an unwanted baby would have been smothered at birth am sure and poverty guarunteed high infant mortality rates anyway

Likewise more women were abused as women, and by definitin their offsrping, had fewer "rights" because they were viewed as chattels of their husbands

The idea of bringing back corporal punishment is completly out of bounds due to caes like the Birmingh 6 and Guildford 4, where oompletely innocent people were framed due to their race and inrespons to the media baying for Irish blood to be spilt

Societies which use corporal punisment are no less violent - when the state sanctions violence how can it reduce violence in the rest of society? That doesn't make sense

Perhaps we should hang draw and quartr people - or have public beheadings? Surely that just desensitises people to violence?

I do quite like the idea that sex offenders should have their goolies cut of, but unforuntely it wouldn't stop them offending

An eye for an eye was what they said in the old testament and I think they had it right then not like now where people say oh poor them they didn't have enough toys and their mum went to work and left them in a nursry or with someone that's why they kill and are nasty.

Grow up!

hully, that did not prevent or eradicate murder then, nor did capital punishment in this country, or as has been pointed out, in the USA where it is still used in some states

you are talking rubbish

pmsl @the old testament

oh yes I am pretty sure instead of the channel tunnel we could hire moses instead to get to France. What a brilliant idea

what's your idea of how to stop the killing then?

posh- what is "baby farming"?

I like the idea of turning water into wine too

pontius pilot? or maybe he is too new testament

quite posh and the 5 fish into 5000 would be great for the cod shortage

It isn't funny to laugh at the bible it said a lot of true things about love and about punishments for killers.

the 'mother' (the beast)

I agree - life with no parole. I very much doubt she will serve 14 years though.

hully "we" are unable to simply "stop killing"

Mygreataunt

Baby farming

that is the point. if you can't stop you have to be stopped. not being abole to stop killing is not an excuse is it?

there is no simple, pat answer

if you really believe that killing the killers would help, you are deluded

In the 19th Century infanticide accounted for a fifth of all murders, compared to an eighth today.
And of course, child abuse was completely normal and institutionalised, as you would know if you'd read Dickins or even seen the musical Oliver! At the age of 12 Dickins himself was working 12 hour days in a factory. He was lucky. The infant mortality rate for poor and illegitimate children in London in the 19th century was over 900 per thousand! This compares to a general death rate of 350 per thousand.

Thanks Baby and Posh (you sound like two Spice Girls)

The thing I find most frutrating is theleel of involvement the SS dept had - HTF can anyone have ay faith that if they contact a SS Dept, after much tought, about a child they fear might be at risk, that it will be taken seriously, after this case?

There was so much outrage after Victoria Climbie was murdered and yet it is still happening despite "intervention" (or serious lack of, in Hanringey's case)

No problem mygreataunt

This keyboard needs replacing