what do you think? was the resturant right?

[2shoes]

or is it discrimination

I now await being asked to not take dd to places incase she puts people off their food.

I have said that I don't see a bit of trouser dropping as anything particularly problematic. I have said I would pull up anyone's trousers if they needed some help. I think the trouser dropping the article was a one-off. I don't think she was generally sitting there with her trousers round her ankles. I don't actually see on mistaken trouser dropping incident as a big deal. I know that people with limited experience with LD or severe PD's get a bit OTT about toileting stuff. Have been to a talk given by a severely disabled woman where the crowd gasped when she started to talk about nappies - I don't think it was remotely her biggest problems.

But then I prefer to be in places with people with learning difficulties. I find the atmosphere more pleasant.

And that has nothing to do with having a disabled child. If you scroll back you'll find my favourite bar/restaurant in Japan - years before ds1 was born- was the one that employed the man with learning difficulties - who was often very socially inappropriate.

And anyway the choice isn't really about special days out is it? Would I rather I had to share restaurant space with someone with a disability, or would I rather that person couldn't go out at all. I'd rather share the restaurant space- whatever their behaviour.

there are different experiences and spoilt experiences

i dont see that the experience of eating in this restaurant or any other where there was a similar situation would be awful it might be not what yopu expected

if you want to have a private experience for a romantic occasion that doesnt involve any potential social encounter you wont like then i think you have to stay at home and do it

ironically thus having th experience that a lot of people with disabilities have forced upon them

is it resally so bad to eat where there are people who are eating mressily by reason of there illness/disability

tbh if I am going out on a rare outing(like a meet up) I would rather go somewhere without children. as i like to have a break. but that is my choice. Like wise I wouldn't choose to go wher there are sn children as I go to get a break. but that is my choice and seeing as I go out once in a blue moon. I can't see anyone caring.

the lady's trousers fell down once (probally due to weight loss) hardley like she was delibratly mooning the customers.

that's the point I was trying to make with the sandwich zippi. When ds1 sniffed the lady's sandwich she could have responded by deciding that he had ruined her day out, or she could have responded by laughing. I'm glad she laughed. Had she gone off one one, he might have waited another 4 years before I had the energy to take him to a cafe again.

I know I said "two sides to the story", But I was really thinking about the clarity of the article in the first place and if events did actually happen as reported. I just wondered if this was how the owner had in fact tackled this. I don't have much face in the press's acuracy especially when reporting on an emotive issue.

Personally, I believe she is at the stage where she needs some help with personal care, and her family and friends also need to take responsibility and help her with getting that help before she reaches the stage whe she is wheelchair bound, non- communicative and dying in a hospital without any visitors.
I often get the feeling that the idea of social responsibility has gone out the window since the 1980's. No one seems willing to take ownership of their own behaviour and the wholly self satisfied attitude of "it's not my problem" and "it's got nothing to do with me" is being heard more and more, yet when complaints are made about unreasonable behaviour people get aggressive and precious about it.

but how would having a companion with her make a difference in this case?

i agree she will need someone maybe she has someone some of the time already but it makes no difference to her appearance or eating

if she was in a group of people maybe she would be a bit diluted by their presence and the other customers feel less exposed to her

of course it would be very expensiv e..twice as much for her meal for a start

custardo - to answer your question (in the required non-ranty way )
I'd choose the one with the best food at the best price in the nicest surroundings. She wouldn't feature in my decision making one way or the other.

What will happen when she discovers she is not able to cut her food herself- and she has no one with her?
What will happen when someone barges past her and she falls over- and she has no one to look out for her?
What will happen when she is forced to have a stranger wipe her bum? A woman who is as independent as she appears to be will probably feel humiliated and will not want to be seen by any one and then we hear a news story about how she lay undiscovered for x amount of time in her home because she had no-one to care on her behalf and then we all sit here, condemning society and saying it's wrong, why didn't she have any help?
Sorry, didn't mean for that to be quite as ranty.

i think there is a middle ground though

it doesn't mean that a disabled person can't go out at all - if i frequented a restaraunt and on a one off occasion there was the woman with a disability - as described - no problem

i think the problem for the restaraunt owner - centres around that lady inpartcular - being there every day.

so when planning a night out - for probably an occasion - you mighthave saved up for it

are you going to go to
a) the restaurant with the woman who may or may not drop her pants, spill her drinks, spit on the floor - becuase she will be there - she always is

or

choose the other one down the street

i think this is quite different from suggesting that disabled people would never go out.

sorry hecate - missed your post.

and am glad it wouldnt figure in your thinking - your a truly nice person and i truly believe a one off

but if the rest of mumsnet say that - they are out and out liars. complete bullshit to say that you are going out to spend upwards of £100 and wouln't take into account the woman int he corner who grobs on the floor,

it would depend on the restaurant

i have frequently been disappointed in meals out usually because the table is by the kitchen doors or the service is crap or the food not very good or worth the money

those are the things i would be trying to get right for a special night

you have to accept that ther e are thing you caqnt avoid like a huge table of people on an office night out or hen party who were going to be rude to the staff and over dominant in the place or the possiblity of someoine you dont want to listen to on the next tabvle

in order not to let other people ruin your special night you have to be laid back and tolerasnt not uptight and whingy

custy you make a good point(the reason I started the thread in a way was to debate that point) sadly though people have come on this thread and made such sick posts that that debate has been lost.

i agree 2 shoes.

i also agree with you zippy

but i wouldnt go to a restaurant guarenteed to have those things

^If a mumsnetter were to plan and save up to go to a resteraunt - for a special meal, a celebration, a bit of romance etc etc

would you chose the one where the disabld lady frequents - daily

or maybe the other one down the road?^

Unless the restaurant has a sign up in the window saying 'oh by the way a disabled lady eats here everyday' HOW could I or indeed ANYONE possibly KNOW what sort of people frequent the place... and in complete honetsy if I were told by a friend - 'oh don't go there theres a dribbling old lady who sits in the corner and spills her food' I wouldn't be put off the restaurant - the friend maybe...

At the end of the day, disabled people are people, they have as much right to a full and enriching life as anyone else does,thats not soemthign I've grown into since being thrust into the role of carer, its something I was brought up to beleive. A little tolerance goes a VERY long way.

but what if that was a brilliant restaurant with brilliant service and good prices. then I would go to that one.

am with hecate. and am not an out and out liar! i am an able bodied person, i can go out any time i want to, to wherever i want, so i am not going to get the arse if on one occasion when i go out, there is someone who has trouble swallowing and might spit due to a degenerative conditon

I understand your scepticism, but I am honestly hand on heart not lying, custy. It truly wouldn't form part of my decision making. I guess you have to remember the world I live in is heavy on the poo and the spit and the innapropriate behaviours Many things that perhaps most people would be - aghast? afraid? bothered by? maybe even grossed out by etc etc - can even pass me by unnoticed.

Plus I'd be too busy policing my kids to look around much!

the only thing that really makes me hurl is people picking their noses and eating it. I wouldn't go to a restaurant if someone was doing that there every day.

I'd prefer them to order from the menu.

i believe you!

i also believe that if the lady frequented the place daily - it would be a matter of time before it became common knowledge about the town.

i also believe there are many factors - and i everyone is saying that this lady isn't one of them - someone should tell the restaraunt owner - he's on to a winner clearly

lol, hecate. To be honest, it wouldn't bother me. I would however be a little concerned if that person was affected to the extent this lady is, that there wasn't anyone with her and worry constantly about how she was getting home, would she be safe, will she be hit by a car as she crosses the road, can she be sure that she remembers her address and can communicate that information. I think my own thought processes would spoil the meal rather tahn the way this lady eats her meal.

hecate - good point about being grossed out. I would probably just be relieved that someeone was making more mess than ds2!

Unfriendly waiters, drunken customers, smoking in the restaurant, bad food - those are the things that would matter.

well i think if i was having this special meal and people recommended the restaurant and also said but there is a regular customer who as per the newspaper article

i would still go because the restaurant sounded good

i actually quite like restaurants to have a bit of atmosphere too so if they are very quiet and precious it definitely puts me off

probably why i have never eaten anywhere top notch i wouldnt feel comfortable

i am quite happy if there are children and families

just other romantic couples i find a bit intimidating and creepy

differentID those kind of things would worry me. I am the type of person who see's an accident before it happens iynwim so I would be concerned for her safety.
my biggest problem in going to a place like that would be to stop dd(sn) lol as she has an inappropriate sense of humour.
But can't say I would allow this lady to stop me eating in a good place. I do wonder if there is something else that is putting the customers of. maybe dare I say the owners attitude.

yes i agree the lady who might or might nit have her pants falling down in front of your children,- wandering around you and your chilren spilling drinks - wouldn't play a factor in my expensive meal

especially as i could go ato another restaraunt equally as good - or probably 4 other restaurants as equally as good

i mean unless this was some gordon ramsey /jamie oliver/ctybank investor trendy place called 'pink' where the food critis were giving it great reviews.

we are taking about an average restaurant - where the average person would go - on their average wages - with their average family?