what do you think? was the resturant right?

[2shoes]

or is it discrimination

I now await being asked to not take dd to places incase she puts people off their food.

jimjams - quite. My parents were asked to leave the Easter service at our local cathedral when I was a baby, IN CASE I made any noise and disturbed the bishop's sermon. They never went back for a service!

GRS. Goodness me. I think you need to stop, re-read your posts and go away and think about them.

Are these noble sentiments to have?

You obviously have absolutely not one iota of understanding of what living with a disability, or caring for someone with a disability is like.

I think I pity you really, no really I do. To be so angry at disabled people...

"We have lives that don't revolve around you. Get used to it and get over it."

Rather sad and rather pathetic really, to not have a modicum of concern or compassion about your fellow human beings who who are living along side you in the community.

Oh, and when you have calmed down, if you wouldn't mind answering my question. Should we have left my Dad behind yesterday for dd2's birthday lunch?

trying to see it from the restaurant owner POV.

but scared in case you start a lynch mob.

but would you really go to a restaurant where a fellow customer walks ner your table shaking coffee with her pants falling down?

if it were a one of i would be lighting torches right with ya.

but she eats there every day, this must have an averse reaction on a business level?

Dear God, some of you should be ashamed of yourselves, really. And you are bringing up children. There is no hope. (I bet these are all the people who get up in arms about P&T parking, and people who tut at children in cafes too.)

Just out of interest, what will you all do if you or your partner has an accident or falls victim to a debilitating illness, or you have a disabled child in the future?

I have seen my dad in tears because he was so self-conscious about eating in public (he has MS - don't worry though, he's bed-bound now, so out and about upsetting anyone) - the attitudes on here make me so sad and angry.

sorry, my dad is not out and about upsetting anyone, that should say.

GRS I am absolutely shocked.
I think you need to do some serious soul searching.
You are probably a very unhappy person, because someone with a soul like yours cannot possibly be living a fulfilling life.

trying to see it from the restaurant owner POV.

but scared in case you start a lynch mob.

but would you really go to a restaurant where a fellow customer walks near your table shaking coffee, with her pants falling down?

if it were a one off i would be lighting torches right with ya.

but she eats there every day, this must have an averse reaction on a business level?

I believe that most people in the UK haven't been involved in the lives of people with higher care needs, let alone profound care needs. As such, they cannot empathise with those who have that requirement. I was fortunate to have had a friend from the age of 7 to the age of 11 who had epilepsy. My secondary school had a special needs department for children with profound learning and physical difficulties and we saw these children moving around the school, every single one had helpers and it was no big deal. It gave many of us in the school a sense of "thank God we are healthy and able to be independent". As such, I have a huge sense of respect for the families and carers of those who need so much help and I try and treat everyone the same.
We are all one race- the human race, and as such we all deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
The restaurant owner did act shamefully by not speaking to Miss Blow about the situation, but the offer to deliver meals to her was one that even fewer eating establishments would have made.

Greyriverside, why on earth do you have a problem with language? Do you WANT the right to be rude, insulting and abusive to disabled people? Do you call black people niggers?

The idea that only carers or 'servants' should worry about using appropriate language is disgusting.

Yes custy I would. I have taken my son to a cafe (the second time he;d been to one in 4 years) where he sniffed someone's arse. The arse sniffed man didn't notice. He then went onto sniff someone's sandwich (she's seen the arse sniffing). Luckily the woman with the sniffed sandwich was made of sterner stuff and found it quite amusing.

I'm sure he will be dropping his trousers at some time (on purpose rather than accidentally as this woman did). He's dropped them in enough places. I pull them back up again. Would do the same for anyone. I don;t see pulling trousers up as that big a deal (although potentially embarrasing for the disabled person- depending on the disability).

Agree with differentID. This thread has shown the utter ignorance that exists around disabilities. Antisocial behaviour is often par for the course. It goers with disability. Either as a society we accept that and get on with it when it infringes on our life for a couple of hours at most. Or we say no I won't tolerate it and reopen the institutions. That's the choice.

To be fair to GRS, she's not the only person who has outed herself on this thread as having despicable attitudes to disabled people...

She's a he edam

Greyriverside is a attention seeker and a very ignorant one imo
I am suprised that he is on mumsnet wouldn't one of the weird BNP stye forums suit him better.
It is one thing to say "oh dear I couldn't cope with this" but to post this on the web is so sick it is disturbing..

"So fuck it you can have some plain speaking back.

You want help but "oh not too much because that would be patronising"

And we're supposed to tip toe around trying to work out what to do and say to keep you happy.

You come on here demanding that we memorise lists of words (which change according to fashion) to refer to your different disabilities as though we were your carers or servants.

We have lives that don't revolve around you. Get used to it and get over it"
I would report the post, but as I have found in the past mn hq don't take discrimination very seriously still as jimjams said, at least I will never meet the twat as he won't come near my family(wish he would , dh loves a ruck)

And you know- being around disabled people doing socially unacceptable things doesn't actually have to infringe on our rights. Take the woman whose sandwich was sniffed. She had a choice. She could either go off on one and demand I pay for another sandwich or she could laugh (as she did) and presumably see it as a funny incident that made that particular day a little bit different.

So let me see if I understand this.

There are 2 groups of people

1 - the normal people

2 - the disabled people

The normal people have the right to go about their lives freely. The disabled people have the right to go about their lives freely - AS LONG - as in doing so they do not adversely affect the normal people. If there is a conflict then it is the disabled people who must withdraw because to not do so is offensive and upsetting to the normal people.

So non-disabled has priority. If you have a disability you have a duty to ensure that nobody is upset/inconvenienced/insulted/offended/disgusted by you.

Any disabled person who needs help to do normal things and expects the right to fully participate in life actually expects the world to revolve around them and should stop being so selfish and go away if they are causing offence.

GRS - Of all the posts on here, yours stands out the most as needing a personal reply.

"You want help but "oh not too much because that would be patronising""
Well, yes. Enough support to enable the person to do what they want/like/need, but not taking over their lives and making decisions for them or doing things they are capable of doing themselves.

"And we're supposed to tip toe around trying to work out what to do and say to keep you happy."
not tiptoe, but not be offensive! And it's not your responsibility to make another person happy but it IS your responsibility to not go out of your way to make another person unhappy.

"You come on here demanding that we memorise lists of words (which change according to fashion) to refer to your different disabilities as though we were your carers or servants."
Shall I list all the words that have been used to describe black people over the years? N. C. W. G....not acceptable now. Fashion? How about words for chinese people? Asian people? What about the charming word that used to be used for people with DS? Or CP? Use them now. I dare you. Fashion? Are you the carer of a person with DS because you cannot call them a M? Are you the servant of my (black) husband because you cannot call him a N?

"We have lives that don't revolve around you. Get used to it and get over it."
Well, who asked that of you? By not revolving you mean what? Not being troubled by? Not having to be involved with? Not being forced to look at?

Disabled people have the right to exist and to have full and active lives. They have the right to any support that is required in order to achieve this. They should NOT have to hide away because non-disabled people do not wish to be forced to co-exist with them or accept that they have needs that must be met in order to level the playing field.

I am very lucky that DS1 only has a small condition, and family (apart from DHs exsister who next time I see her I am going to smack so hard she will tic for a week as she said I "should have had DS1 out down at birth) are great with him and so are our friends.
Strangers can be a bit harder but DS1 will say to the starers, "I have Tourettes, what would you like to know?"
Some of the mindless arsewipes children at his school call him retard, but he points out he can not help what he says they can so which one of them had the defective brain really.

Sadly the twats kids at school most likely have parents like GRS and then grow in to adults like GRS.
If I was sat in a cafe full of drunks and drug addicts I would leave, those people for the most part bring it on themself (dad was a alcoholic) but I would not leave if it was full of disabled people (my local coffee shop has a lot of people come in with their carers for coffee)

I was really angry with GRS now I just feel really really sorry for her. Sad sad little person with no life

GRS has previously argued that it's perfectly acceptable to use the word mong hecate.

He apparently has real problems understanding that people with disabilities have equal rights to the able bodied.

Great post though!

greyriverside posts consistently on threads contentiously

it is why he is on mn

i just dont take any notice of him now

Are you gay by chance GRS?
I only ask because I see on another thread you are having a go about the woman who would not oversee gay partnerships, you say what if the couple had been black, or Jewish would she have been allowed to say no then?
Well let me ask you this....What if the couple were disabled? I mean coming out in day light, daring to want to have a partner, they might even have children who shock horror might be disabled, what if she had said NO to a disabled couple?
Would you argue so fircely on their part, people who have no say in their condition as you did on the said of the gays?

Can't have it all ways you know, everyone should have the same rights, or are gay people more worthy then disabled ones?
I don't think disabled ones are going to hell.

jimjams - you are talking about your son

i am talking about the public -en masse

Now it so happens that in costa coffee where i live there is a woman who frequents the place daily for long periods of time in her pyjamas. she shakes and walks around - and no one takes a bit of notice and the place still thrives.

i daresay if she dropped her bottoms it would be a different matter!

i would also further suggest that my example above talks about a fairly quick turn around custom.

If a mumsnetter were to plan and save up to go to a resteraunt - for a special meal, a celebration, a bit of romance etc etc

would you chose the one where the disabld lady frequents - daily

or maybe the other one down the road?

and i would appreciate a non ranty non lynchy response.

Hand on heart, if dh and i had planned a special meal ou together i wouldn't go to the place that the lady as described in the link frequented.

i don't think this makes me ignorant.

of further validationis needed becuase this can get into a "how very dare you , you haven't gota disabled child ergo not entitled to a POv as valid as mine"

can i say i have a partially deaf daughter

and i look after a guy who works at our place 2 days a week - he has mental health needs an sometimes his pants fall down in the office.

thats ok - in the office. i don't mind one bit.