No men on women's hospital wards - Good!

[blondeseaside]

Trans women (men) don't want to be on wards with men, but they are quite happy to inflict themselves onto women's wards, no matter how uncomfortable that makes real women. Make it make sense!

Oh don't be so melodramatic. How am I "throwing women under the bus?"

Practices changed due to 4 Women Scotland taking a case to the Supreme Court and winning. It has still taken 18 months to get them to even issue this guidance.

It did not change after the rape. And many other horrible situations that women have been in, including male doctors being chaperoned by other men when performing intimate procedures on women. Kinda begs the question what the point of a chaperone is.

jesus wept. Obviously women tend to stay quiet when in confined vulnerable spaces with men. Can you take a guess why or do I need to tell you?
Unsurprisingly you’re from NZ, a country which prioritises men in frocks ahead of women. NZ is light years behind the UK. You ought to be embarrassed.

Some people seem to have forgotten that less than 10% of TW have their penises removed.

Not that it matters, as they are still men.

You don't know any of the women I know. Most of them are not the type to be told to 'shut up' and we all have minds of our own. And yes, I do think women in the UK are a different breed, as evidenced by many posts on MN, and for what it's worth I remember a poster on here once who had lived in both countries saying that women here are not the delicate flowers they are in the UK. Make of that what you will.

and with or without a penis, men are still men.

Ffs don't be so bloody ridiculous. We did venture out of the ward into the lounge ocassionally. Vulnerable spaces with men, what a load of nonsense. And no, it's not NZ which is light years behind. I will not be embarrassed at all, on the contrary I am beyond grateful that my ancestors - all eight of them - had the good sense to get out of the UK.

Yeah, I looked it up to see if they were more in the strength range of a male or a female because I saw a trans man in the Winter Olympics, and whatever I read said they were on the lower end of the male strength bell curve. I can't remember the website, but I got there through Google.

It described males as, on average, something like 1.9-2.5x stronger in the upper body than females, and trans men as 1.6-2x stronger because of testosterone's effects on muscle and, I assume, bone density. So they would be more like a weak man than a strong woman. However, heart size, lung size, height, and hand and foot size would still fall within the female range, so they couldn't compete with men in sports, but it would be hard for a woman to fight them off if a transman attacked her.

A really sad fact from when I watched a YT vid of a girl who was on testosterone said that it made her vocal cords thicker, but her obviously her neck size was still in the female range so she lost her ability to scream.

Its all a bit fucked up to be honest.

About time. Everyone deserves safety and dignity when they're ill. My sons wouldn't want to be on a mixed swx ward either. Males in male wards, females in female. I really hope they enforce this properly.

That's not really womens problem though is it? Although I would argue that its very unlikely they actually pass and would still be physically stronger than a woman. I do believe women are more at risk of SA from men (including TW) than TW are from men.

Realistically they'll get a side room.

Women in NZ are just as vulnerable as women in the uk. As evidenced by the sky high domestic violence and vawg statistics in NZ.

I live in NZ and have worked in a hospital, and mixed wards are much more common here than in the UK.

Trans patients got put in private rooms- apart from the one who assaulted two female nurses, who then had to be chaperoned by male staff in the open ward.

Thank goodness the adults are finally returning to make these sensible (moral AND legal,) decisions. About bloody time.

Men need to stay out of women's spaces. It doesn't matter if they think they are women, or disabled, or frail, or young. They are all male and do not, and never will, belong there.

PP: "If risk of rape (because they have a vagina, even though they may also have a beard) is one reason why trans men should be allowed on women's wards, it follows that if we are worrying about people with vaginas being vulnerable to rape on men's wards, that we wouldn't want post op trans women to face that risk, surely? But apparently we do."

No man, not even a trans woman, has a vagina. Not even a "neo-vagina"

A very few males may have a poor surgically-created superficial orifice, but it is not a vagina and never will be. It's in the wrong place for a start, is a dead-ended hole, not a functioning body part connected to a whole reproductive system, is a wound that needs daily attention to keep it from healing as the body is desperately trying to do, needs cleaning to remove dead cells, hair and other unpleasant, smelly and sometimes infected materials that collect inside that come from flaying and inverting penile and/or testicular skin. And so on.

If we're calling any old hole in the body a vagina, then I've got two more on each side of my head as well.

vulnerable spaces with men, what a load of nonsense?

Really, Is that all you’ve got, denial that women might be vulnerable around men? In the face of a tsunami of contrary evidence? So you deny the data and the research and the views of the overwhelming majority of women, to pander to men?
Thank fuck dick pandering is quickly becoming a thing of the past in the UK.

Your incredibly naive if you think that men and women sharing a hospital bay is progressive.

Firstly you shouldnt have been in a position to see that poor man's penis, thats not fair on him at all. Secondly men can and will use that opportunity to SA women. Not necessarily major assault but showing their dicks, masturbating etc.

DH was in a mixed sex bay (cardiac ITU) and hated it. He was next to an elderly woman and felt very uncomfortable when she had to have personal care/use the bedpan with only a thin curtain seperating them. It is what it is in that situation but I guarantee people do care

Thats like saying tigers are cats therefore all cats are tigers.
Women are at risk of rape because of our sexed bodies.
Men who have removed their penis are not women but male eunochs. As such they are at no greater risk of rape than any other male

So, if an unwell woman (at her most vulnerable probably), doesn't want to be sleeping in a bed next to an unknown male, that makes her a delicate flower? Have you any idea how offensive that is? What about women who have been attacked or raped? Are they allowed to feel uncomfortable sleeping next to an unknown male?

Would you feel it's okay for little girls to be in the same wards as men? If not why not?

Do you think the reason why women won't speak up is because they'd be accused of being a "delicate flower" for not wanting to share a hospital bay with men? Because yhe culture is clearly to scoff at them

You are allowed to be a "delicate flower" in hospital. You shouldnt have to be stoic or just get on with it. You are allowed to feel uncomfortable receiving personal care with only a thin curtain seperating you from a man.

According to Squirrel though, they're all tough nuts and don't care about this sort of thing - they're not 'delicate flowers' like all of us UK women.

We all have our own minds and arent afraid to speak up but women who speak up are delicate flowers? Yeah right 🤣

very very few men who identify as trans get their dicks cut off. When they ‘have surgery’ they mean fake boobs.

And yet here you are - on a UK site, talking with UK women? Funny that. I can't think of one single time I have ever joined a NZ site to converse with NZ women. Why are you here, if the UK is so beneath you, and its women are so weak and inferior??

A surgically created open wound that needs dilation daily for life to prevent it from closing up ie properly healing is not any kind of vagina

Oh, good question @blondeseaside. Why are you slumming it with us wallflowers @SquirrelGG?

You know, us wallflowers who have defended women's rights for the last decade while getting told to stfu and die in a grease fire?