No men on women's hospital wards - Good!

[blondeseaside]

Trans women (men) don't want to be on wards with men, but they are quite happy to inflict themselves onto women's wards, no matter how uncomfortable that makes real women. Make it make sense!

Presumably that could happen anyway though if there was a rapist on the ward who was doing that to other men?

I’m perfectly fine with this as they are biological females and therefore I don’t feel they’re a threat. Not sure why people keep trotting this out.

In reality probably not though as some of them have beards and do not look female. They probably wouldn’t be allowed to tell you it was a trans man either so you’d just be thinking they were breaching their policies.

They’ll all end up on the corridor anyway—many do. There is a very severe bed shortage, because successive governments cut bed numbers to save money.

@Bushmillsbabe I think newer hospitals have more single rooms, partly because we now have remote monitoring available so that the safety of people who are less visible can be assessed.

Open wards are easier to spot if there are problems going on - of all sorts, but definitely harder to sleep/rest in.

Not UK, but Australia. My local public hospital wards, usually 6 people, have become mixed sex. Mostly for cost saving.

MIL had a man opposite her and had to keep her curtains drawn as he didn't wear underwear & flashed his genitals every time he got up. It was very distressing for her and tbh just awful and not right. I'm holding onto my private insurance!!

Worst 'gotcha' ever! 😬

YANBU @blondeseaside

You can't compare Trans men and Trans women.

Trans women (men) are usually attracted to females (80%) and we know they still have violent tendencies associated with their real gender. How many angry Trans women have you come across? How many attacking lesbians at Pride? How many making demands about getting into female bathrooms and changing rooms? How many who have raped women?

You rarely get any of this bad behaviour from Trans men. There's a reason for that. And that's why I don't feel threatened by them. Same way I would not see a lesbian as a threat. Deep down women are women, no matter how they present, and women are safer human beings all round.

The gist of the argument is that women with vaginas who think they are men would be at risk of male violence on a men's ward (I agree). If it's the vagina that makes them vulnerable rather than, to quote a person in the thread, their "female essence", then any person without a penis must be at similar risk, surely? Even if they were born male?

Or is rape an acceptable risk now for some people?

You can often tell regardless. Our postie is a trans man. He has a beard. It's no shock he's a Trans man, very slight small build and feminine features.

On a hospital ward, if you know that men are not allowed, you would assume a person with a beard was in fact a Trans man, and you'd probably be able to see tell tale signs.

The risk to women from rape is completely different from the risk to other men.

For a start, men do not get pregnant and then have a life destroyed by having to either have an abortion or bring up a child of rape.

Again, if the NHS is on one hand cutting people's dicks off then they are the ones who are responsible for managing those people during and after their operations, it is not womens' collective role to move over and facilitate every little thing they want just because they had their dicks chopped off.

I am sick to the back teeth of the fawning over mentally ill men, this is not our problem to solve. We already had enough of those to be going on with before all this utter nonsense took over the institutions.

On the women's ward, looking at a woman sized 'man', with female facial bone structure - even with any amount of facial hair - I reckon I could Columbo the riddle.

Vaginas are not anuses.

I cannot believe this is the argument we are having to have.

Rape is about power and control, not (generally) impregnation. Listen to yourself.

Women who are post menopausal who are raped are not less traumatised because they have no fear of pregnancy.
Men who are raped are not less traumatised because they have no fear of pregnancy.

I understand your principle but the enactment of that principle and the words you use to justify it disgust me. You have entirely lost sight of the personhood of individuals.

What men chose to do with their bodies and the raft of vulnerabilities that may accompany those choices - are not women's problem to fix by accepting more risk.

That's right 👍 👍

I'm in NZ and spent eight days in hospital earlier this year. There were men and women in my room for six people and yes I did accidentally see one man's genitals. I couldn't have cared less, and no-one on the ward seemed to be in any distress that there were - shock, horror - men in with us. In fact I haven't heard of anyone who has ever been upset by it, not even my 86 year old DM.

@MyFriendNorman

No, it's not the vagina that puts them at risk on its own.

It's the size difference between the groups

It's the strength difference between the groups

It's the socialisation and cultural difference between the groups

The presence of a penis or vagina is not the only issue - and vastly overestimates the number of men who have undergone penectomy in the group of men who have declared themselves women.

As I said before, many men have additional vulnerabilities and these should be risk assessed and managed, in a holistic way during hospital stays.

What?

I haven't mentioned anuses.
You do understand that sex reassignment creates a "neovagina" from an inverted penis, don't you? They aren't as you charmingly say just "cutting dicks off" and leaving the anus as the sole orifice?

I didn't say it WAS NOT about power and control. But it IS a different risk for women and girls.

You listen to yourself, the NHS were the ones who chopped people's dicks off. They need to manage the fall out of their own stupid bloody actions.

They are 100% responsible for this whole rotten shitshow.

Neovaginas are either penises turned inside out, or parts of the digestive system sewn into fake holes that men have to dilate every day to keep open.

They are not vaginas either.

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

https://mro.massey.ac.nz/server/api/core/bitstreams/c9980f0a-f888-47a4-9468-0ea5f65b8c94/content

Some light reading.

That's great you weren't bothered. My MIL was. She had to keep her curtains closed in her own hospital bed because a man opposite kept exposing himself. An 86-year-old woman should not have to do that to feel safe. One person's "I don't care" doesn't mean it isn't awful and wrong for someone else.

Males are violent towards other men. That is clear. But it is not women’s responsibility to solve that or act as human shields.

Tran-identifying males are no less dangerous to women than other males, regardless of any artificial holes they may have had installed. The best way to keep women safe is by keeping all male patients off women’s wards.