Terrible Scenes At Heaton Park Synagogue

[VillaDiodati]

Absolutely shocking attack at the Heaton Park Synagogue in Crumpsall North Manchester. My heart goes out to all those hurt and affected by this terrible atrocity.

How awful. I'm so sorry that happened to you and your children. The people responsible and those who encourage them to think like that should be ashamed of themselves. But they won't be.

Interesting use of the term "Israel Jews" , rather than Israelis.....

Thank heavens for Maajid Nawaz. Complete unequivocal condemnation from him. As far as Islamic-British relations go, I think he’s incredible.

We had them outside our school and synagogues in the 70’s. We thought it was normal. I’m amazed that people didn’t know this!

Apparently there were cars of Muslims driving around the area laughing and with music blaring

Horrific

Given craven lefty apologia for islamic terrorism as only a response to ever present western evil - colonialism, the crusades, war on terror, polio vaccination, trans atlantic slavery, whatever - and not as something that has its own inherent motivation and unpleasant goals, I would not be surprised at all if anyone were to frame the Manchester arena massacre as a fitting blowback. That is how ignorant, corrupt and hypocritical the political discourse is.

Can people not just give the whole 'left' 'right' divisive rhetoric a break.

While, in all probability, the attacker very likely had political motivations, it hasn't been confirmed and lets not forget the shit show that happened after the Southport attack because of online outrage.

This is not about politics, this is about ordinary people who were hurt and killed while going about their lives. People should be angry, but directing that anger at whole groups of people will only lead to more violence and fear.

Not everyone who went on a Raise the Colours March or who lean right in terms of ideology is a racist thug, not everyone who went on the Palestine Marches and leans left is an antisemite, not every Jew is an ultra-zionist who wants to destroy Palestine, not every Palestinian supports Hamas and not every Muslim wants to see the end of Israel.

There are extreme elements in every political group, almost every religious group, and every ethnic group who want to harm people they view as 'other', or have ideological goals that they want to achieve.

It is possible to be supportive and empathetic to Jewish people who feel persecuted and unsafe and think that the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza is wrong - one does absolutely not negate the other.

Those who say that all people who went on those marches were somehow complicit in this attack are no better than the people who blame all Jews for the actions of the Israeli government. Both positions are nothing more than dogmatic prejudice.

We need to get back to a society which acknowledges and embraces pluralism and rejects "with us or against us" attitudes.

We will never be able to stop the rise of extremism if everyone adopts extremist attitudes based on their own particular beliefs.

I’m hoping, if any good comes from today is that it will stop these awful pro Hamas marches. I’m sure that most people on them don’t even realise what they are
doing. That they are being mobilised to intimidate Jewish communities and legitimise and provide an outlet for quite overt anti semitism. They need to be stopped. I can’t believe people have been taken in by it. If you think you haven’t, just consider how many marches you have been on, how many flags you have waved for say the children being killed by war in Sudan.

Or Yemen, where ten times the number of civilians have died as in Gaza. The US is currently carrying out bombing raids there, resulting in appalling civilian casualties, but no reaction from the street marchers. Our weapons manufacturers sell huge numbers of arms to Saudi Arabia for their war in Yemen, but there are no calls for embargoes on these companies.

It’s not dogmatic prejudice to say those marches are anti semetic, they intimidate Jews. Individuals on them might consider themselves not anti semitic but they are taking part in an event which Jewish communities have stated over and over again they find intimidating - look on here for the harassment they have faced from marchers. If they are not anti semetic they are poorly educated about the marches.hopefully now they are aware of the distress they are causing the Jewish community they clearly will not want to attend them any more. Otherwise they are knowingly doing something which causes distress to the Jewish community

This ☝

What opened the gates to the Southport killer then ? Same sort of person committing the crime? Seriously mentally ill and fuelled by extremism on line?

The Southport killer was not a terrorist in the fact that he had no ideology. He was researching all ways of killing by a variety of different groups. He was simply obsessed with violence.

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But we know it's not just fuelled by extremism online. We can hear the violent chants at the weekly hate marches and Talk TV did an undercover investigation into antisemitic incitement in mosques. They broadcast it but nothing else was heard about it

I think this is a completely different scenario to what triggered the Southport killer

Exactly. The fact that the marches concentrate solely on Gaza indicates one of the following:

1. The marchers don’t understand children are dying in greater numbers in other wars. If they do why aren’t there marches just about children dying in conflict why the concentration in just one of the 20 odd war zones that currently exist in the world.
2. That the marchers don’t understand that the marches intimidate the Jewish community in Britain. If you do understand this, like everyone on this thread you are taking part in something deliberately you know will intimidate Jews.
3. That the marches are being used as a way of providing a mouth piece for anti semitism and the marchers don’t understand that.
4. people on the march consciously or unconsciously support anti semitism

I’ve just seen a picture of little children in foil blankets being cared for by the emergency services. Simply heartbreaking. They must be so frightened.

I have a Jewish friend in Manchester, also with very young children, who is observing Yom Kippur today, and will be off-line for the duration. I feel sick thinking of what she must be going through.

I’m heartbroken and indignant for everyone affected by this disgusting act of Terrorism.

And does anyone outside of the Jewish Community and their allies notice such an atrocity? No. Of course not.

In the words of David Baddiel, Jews don’t count.

He was mentally ill and autistic, it wasnt a terror attack in that sense. There was no ideology or aim behind it. He used some terror manuals to get ideas about how to use weapons but wasnt influenced as such by any aim or ideology.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgknpzrkyvno.amp

Arrests in Germany for plotting an attack, It's terrifying. How did it become ok to do this?

Extreme Islam is far right!!@

@BloominNora I agree that we need less division. But it should be acknowledged what tacit support or even silence can mean.

I'd say I'm a lefty but I also acknowledge that some parts of the political left* seem in thrall to Islam, even its radical and violent factions, and have assigned the tag of 'victim' to any Muslim regardless of a) whether they want that tag or b) whatever they've done - see the Rochdale grooming gangs where they were untouchable for such a long time for fear of being called racist or Islamaphobic.

By the time you add in a cohort on the political left who see Jews as inherently capitalist because of historic associations with banking etc, I would say it isn't correct to say that the political left shouldn't be having a long hard look at itself. Hierarchies of victimhood and class warfare should not trump common humanity.

(I use the term "political left" here to differentiate between those who are actively involved in hard left-wing politics and campaigning, and those who are left-leaning - I'm not sure that's the best explanation but I hope you see what I mean!)

If this was part of a co-ordinated attack by Hamas, that does take this to a whole other level.

I am not Jewish. When I saw the shocking news, I cried too. The rise in anti-semitism has been so obvious and so worrying. There are no words of comfort. I am just so sorry.

My thoughts are with the Jewish community today.

As an ethnic minority I’ve faced racism but frankly not the scale of targeting that British Jews have faced over the past 2 years. I really think people need to reflect and really think about whether they have contributed to an environment where some of the awful behaviour noted on this thread has become fine in our society instead of condemned. I struggle to see why it is so easy for people to identify racism when it happens to some groups and not others.

I just want any Jewish people here to know that most of us are horrified by what happened today but also horrified by the treatment you’ve endured and the fear you are living with, it shouldn’t happen and it’s not acceptable. I hope to see the government take a much more robust stance on antisemitism going forward.

The SAS have been deployed in Manchester. Makes me wonder if the government doesn't believe this to be a lone wolf. I am so sorry to everybody this affects today. My prayers are with you.