Three woman murdered in Hertfordshire.

[BodenCardiganNot]

Absolutely shocking. A 26 year old man named as Kyle Clifford, believed to be armed with a crossbow, is being sought by police.
The dead women are aged 61, 28 and 25.

@Kellyanne555 It is NOT being helpful. It would upset people when you do that.
It's extremely rude to suggest things like that to other people.

Lol, bit rich coming from you isn’t it, Kellyanne? Y’know, telling us women that we can be just as bad and cruel on a thread intended to discuss a harrowing case of women being murdered by a man.

No one should engage with this pathetic user any longer.

The me-railing is a familiar discussion-board strategy. It's very 'blunt instrument' and always lacking in any form of nuance, with the effect that any productive or interesting discussion that's been happening on a thread up until that point dries up. Given this is usually a conversation about the interests of women, clearly there are certain demographics who would prefer that this didn't happen.

Then the thread descends into a stultifying series of ad hominem attacks, the posters interested in debating the issues up and sod off, then the rest get sick of the tedious ping-pong sparring and trickle off the thread which then withers away.

It's a standard feature on the FWR boards, although many are now wise to it.

Nothing is as emotionally abusive than having 2 children brutally murdered in front of a parent.

You don’t have to be a parent to realise that. Being together would have caused more pain than comfort.

I'll do to you what you did to me.

Annal94?

No one should engage with that user anymore.

I've said it's it must be done.

Do you see how immature that sounds?

Let’s just keep talking about these 3 women who deserve not to be another statistic.
We need to keep in mind these are people and we need radical change in society to prevent these tragic murders happening over and over.
Given we have the same MP, I will be writing when I can think of what I wish to express.

I did answer. I said "this isn't work". The implication that I wouldn't do it at work is clear. And I then edited to make that explicit.

A man murdered three women and you have the nerve to bemoan your snidey bosses on the thread about this atrocity and then criticise the people who told you that this isn't the place. And then you accuse someone of bullying you when suggesting something that, in her experience, might help.

I'm sorry that I misjudged making that suggestion and offended you by doing so. Me misjudging something doesn't make me a bully, though.

Maybe do some reading or look up statistics before coming out with this NAMALT nonsense.

When men’s violence against women is the leading cause of premature death for women globally, I think it’s safe to say that violent men are a huge problem and it needs to be acknowledged and addressed. Do you hear of similar statistics relating to women? Of course not! I’m fact in most cases of women killing their partners, it’s following said woman being subjected to months/years of DV.

if you don’t recognise any violent qualities in the men you know, then great, but don’t derail a much needed conversation purely because it’s not your experience!

Police reported as saying the attack is unprecedented. 2 women a week are murdered at the hands of men they know. Men murdering women in their own homes is hardly unprecedented. Comments like this build a picture that just isn't representative of reality.

It is not appropriate to say to an adult anywhere that they should take an autism test.

You fail to seem to grasp that simple logic.

It doesn't matter that this isn't work. I used work as an example.

It's not appropriate to say to an adult anywhere. As you well know.

I've managed to never say to a stranger on a forum , "hey you should do an autism test"

As its weird, and I would know it would be unwanted.

I could say back to you there ' a man murdered three women - and you have the nerve to drone on about your life and experiences, which has nothing to do with the women being murdered either does it'

I would like to make change in society. Its hard to know where to start.

i wonder what we can do to make change

Perhaps they mean that it was unprecedented in terms of the nature of the attack, the way that it was planned etc?

I think there’s a fine balance as people are, understandably, very scared.

It is more unusual that a man would murder his ex partner and 2 family members in such a vicious, targeted attack. But you’re right, reality is that, unfortunately, this sort of attack from men towards women is all too common.

There's an interesting thread on FWR about Jess Phillips and her new role in tackling VAWG, of which she has had unfortunate recent experience.

It's a whole culture and mindset which needs changing, however. This is an uphill battle given that women are subjugated pretty much across the globe and the small degrees of progress we saw in the late C20 now don't seem to have moved things forward at all.

It's a thoroughly depressing picture, but there is nothing to do but keep fighting it in whatever small ways we can.

Why is her opinion "nonsense".

Why can't people listen to varying opinions without attacking and tearing women down.

@MaidOfAle Thank you so much for your helpful post.

Neurodiversity is something that is poorly understood, and the more information that is out there, the better.

I believe you did a kind thing, that was well intentioned. I believe it came from a place of compassion.

Thank you for putting yourself out there and trying to make a difference 🩷

Focus on the problem, not argue the toss with each other and say “but women can murder too”. Yes, they can but 98% are male murders so let’s focus on that. Once we’ve reduced 98% of murders, we can look at reducing the female ones.

@SerafinasGoose Thats what I truly value about MN. I use this space to find information on how we as women can come together collectively to act.

looking forward to seeing what Jess does 😊

These are very generous posts, as is an apology in the face of repeated goading and your continual refusal to allow yourself to be provoked.

I think the rest of us can clearly see the spirit in which they were intended.

I would like to make change in all of a
society.

I didn't say I would like to make men less violent.

In my opinion the problems are in the whole of society, not just in men.

There is violence cruelty and abuse everywhere.

Men abuse women, there is also a lot of abuse of children, there is a huge amount of abuse of elderly in nursing homes.

We have become a cruel cold and abusive society.

We all need to bring about change

I don't think it is unprecedented.

Two women at least die every week.
Dying at the hands of someone they know.
Multiple family members.

The ONLY thing that makes it unprecedented is the crossbow but I'm sure I've read a news report this week of a random shooter aiming arrows at two different people. Unless I dreamt that report 🤔

I agree. It's minimising. Anyone who reads or watches even a minimal amount of news will be aware this isn't an anomaly. It's quickly becoming accepted, whereas if any other demographic were being murdered with such alarming regularity by another demographic, there would rightly be an outcry.

The #CountingDeadWomen is evidence alone in itself. This minimising - almost to the point of denial - of a very real and pervasive social issue dismays me.

She said it to me, not you, and I didn't appreciate it at all.
It doesn't matter that you think it was well intentioned.

If she says it to someone and that person is very upset by it, it matters that the person on the receiving end was upset.

I remember reading about a man who patted a womans bum. She was upset. He said "oh but It was well intentioned, I didn't mean anything bad by it"

And she said that she felt violated and cried all night.

It's how the person on the receiving end feels that matters, even if the person was "well intentioned"

I honestly wouldnt dream of saying to anyone, they should do an autism test. It's so totally inappropriate, and I would know and I would not do it

Multiple victims isn't even all that unusual. https://www.femicidecensus.org/reports/ The 2021 report on page 19 says that in 12% of the 2021 femicides, there was at least one other person killed and plenty more cases where another person was injured.

The only unusual thing about this event is the relationship of the victim's to a public-facing BBC employee.