Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her...
I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

Exactly.

She should face trial in Syria, serve her sentence and be deported back to the UK where she was born and reared. Whether you want her back is irrelevant, you don't get to fob her off on a random country just because you don't want her.

Im really torn...on the one hand she was a child and she was groomed. On the other she comes across as an incredibly odd character...she doesn't seem the least bit bothered that her children died. She doesn't seem remorseful. I can't work out if she's deeply traumatized or a psychopath.

She wouldn't be living next door to anyone. She'd be in prison. She's was never going to come back to live happily ever after.

Can we strip this young man of his citizenship while we are at it?

Jack Letts - white, British, lived in Oxford with his white parents, white British, one Canadian.

Stripped of his UK residency in 2019 as he was Jihadi Jack. Canada was not happy with Britain.

Jack Letts was completely radicalised despite being white and middle class, and received the same treatment as Begum.

I get that she was a child and maybe because of that we should be more lenient. However, I reckon there is much more to this. To remove someone citizenship is not taken lightly. She isn't stateless, she just isn't in the state she wants to be.

I think it's wrong simply because I don't think making a person stateless should be a response to them committing a crime. She should be tried as a citizen of the UK and go through due process and have her case looked at, not just be tossed aside because she's done wrong.

No, it wasn't the same treatment. He had dual citizenship. She has only ever had British citizenship.

She is stateless. She has been stripped of her British citizenship, and has never held another citizenship.

@daffodilday I have children of similar age to her and they know right from wrong and wouldn't dream of joining a terrorist organisation! So I have some experience of young people thanks! Stop making excuses for her. Would you still have the same opinion if you had family/ friends killed in the Manchester bomb?

I agree, I don’t know what the answer is, I was hoping her citizenship would be returned so that she could return, face charges and a period of imprisonment and be helped to deal with the brainwashing and coercion she has been subjected to.

Now I can’t imagine what will happen, but I do know that any chance of her being made to understand what she has done have now vanished. Whatever thoughts she now has about ISIS will be hardened and entrenched and she will be a much more dangerous person being portrayed as a martyr in propaganda videos, which is what she could easily be led to do, than she would have been serving time in a UK prison.

15 years old, with a 15 year old brain not capable of rational thought, radicalised, trafficked and married off to a violent man, after 10 days of marriage her husband was imprisoned by ISIS , on his release she endured five pregnancies, two miscarriages, three dead babies. How many of us would come out of that situation at the age of 23 being able to think straight.

Wrong decision IMO, for many of the reasons others have cited:

1. She was a child when she left for Syria
2. She does not currently hold another citizenship other than British
3. Plenty of men who actually FOUGHT for Isis have returned to the UK - 360 in 2019 according to Hansard (hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-03-18/debates/42259394-C90B-4670-BFC9-A5F91518A5FF/ISISMembersReturningToTheUK) - are we really meant to believe that this young woman, who was essentially in Syria as a baby-making machine is more of a threat than any of those 360?

So true. We can’t just wash our hands of dangerous and morally repugnant individuals.

Her beliefs are at significant odds to what our country is about. And she made decisions to go live in a country that matched her beliefs and support ISIS who hate the west and want every country to be under sharia law. Now she wants proclaims the UK is her country even though she maintains the same beliefs.

Why? Why does she want to come live in a country that has a culture and religion that she hates enough to want to join in a war against it.

It's exactly the same for all intents and purposes. Jack Letts had never visited Canada and had no links with it. But he was eligible for residency by virtue of his family - same as Begum with Bangladesh.

As it happens, I'm not necessarily sure that stripping her of her residency is the right decision, but it's a bit frustrating listening to the claims that it's only because she's a woman and brown-skinned. I don't think that was why Javid took the decision he did (and I'm no fan of him either so not defending his actions!). It's more about wanting to send out a message and looking tough - I think it was probably more about this than the threat that she undoubtedly would represent.

But wasn't she only stripped of her citizenship because the legal advice was that she was eligible to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship? The fact that they don't want to grant her citizenship or may impose the death penalty doesn't mean that she is not eligible. Some other high profile people lost their British citizenship because they were dual nationals but the others who returned to the UK weren't eligible for citizenship of any other country and couldn't be made stateless.

Thank god for that I hope she rots in hell.

No she isn’t stateless. You can have citizenship by right of birth in many countries whether you apply for it or not. This applies to Begum as she has Bangladeshi citizenship by birth from her mother per Bangladesh citizenship law. The moment she was born, she held Bangladeshi citizenship.

The only thing that wasnt done is for her is to have a registered as a citizen, which is not required to be a citizen. Most people would only register if they intend to live there or exercise their rights as a citizen. In the U.K. you don’t even have to register anymore if born a citizen abroad and want to emigrate here so this isn’t universal.

So with dual nationality terrorists it’s a race, first country to strip citizenship wins. If anyone is now leaving Begum stateless it would be Bangladesh as the U.K. stripped her British citizenship four years ago when she was definitely still a Bangladeshi citizen. But Bangladesh have merely stated she is barred from entering the country…so once she’s stood trial and served any sentence, she would theoretically be free to live as an immigrant anywhere but U.K. Bangladesh may allow her in after serving her sentence. Who knows. But she isn’t stateless, she has a citizenship.

Two completely different cases - begum leaves to go and take part in isis activities, married an isis fighter, strapped people into suicide vests - decided to come back and shows no remorse at all. But yes of course the reason why people have more of an issue with Begum is racism. Yep. Really thought that one through haven’t you?

I don't think the problem is her going (that could be seen as grooming) so much as what she did when she got there.

She seems to have been quite influential. She's not stupid as some have indicated, she was a straight A student and proved herself quite capable while over there.

She should be treated as a war criminal and tried for her crimes in the state in which they were committed.

I suspect there is much more that we don't know about.

No, she is eligible to register as a citizen, not apply. She has been a citizen since birth by descent.

She was a child.
If she returned to the UK, as the most scrutinised person ever, there is about 0% chance she would commit an offence.
Time to show some humanity.

I don’t have views on her, but sometimes a punishment is pure deterrent. It’s rare that I agree with that but this case is a great example.

High Profile: Fight with terrorists and you can’t come home.

It’s the right message, however difficult for her personally. It’s ultimately the right decision for the UK and may save other women.

I do think this is part of the complexity, but I can’t help but wonder if the empathy towards her would be less if it was a male in the same situation.

meh i think several have come back, haven't they? I do find it quite strange that this girl knew what she was doing and is an absolutely evil person who should never darken our doorstep again but the same aged Greta Thunberg is an absolute puppet and has no idea about the world and how could she she's an autistic 15 year old. So there's that aspect.

But i agree with pp: she is our problem, and if that means bringing her back and banging her up for life, then that's our solution. And also as pp said, in her position right now? I'd not be denouncing ISIS either because now, of course she has to stay there. She hasn't burned her bridges there, which (however abhorrent) was a wise decision on her part. I don't think it helps that she isn't conventionally cute or pretty, seems to be quite dim (how they recruited her, most likely) and seems to have "resting apathetic face" because how would it help her to look either happy, or be crying all the time?

So we'll see what happens next. She's stateless. I can imagine that now she's going to be recruited all over again, she has absolutely nothing to lose.

@Brefugee

..meh ... i think several have come back, haven't they? I do find it quite strange that this girl knew what she was doing and is an absolutely evil person who should never darken our doorstep again but the same aged Greta Thunberg is an absolute puppet and has no idea about the world and how could she she's an autistic 15 year old. So there's that aspect.

WTF has Great Thunberg got to do with Shemima Begum?