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Original poster

Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

604 replies

Noangelbuthavingfun · 22/02/2023 10:21

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her...
I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
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8
Brefugee · 22/02/2023 12:11

did you read what i wrote? They were the same age when they rose to prominence. And the comments about them are polar opposites: one knew exactly what she was doing apparently, the other is a child and has no clue.

Lindy2 · 22/02/2023 12:12

She's a terrorist.

It's right to block her returning to Britain. She's not going to do any good here.

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 22/02/2023 12:13

@Brefugee

meh i think several have come back, haven't they? I do find it quite strange that this girl knew what she was doing and is an absolutely evil person who should never darken our doorstep again but the same aged Greta Thunberg is an absolute puppet and has no idea about the world and how could she she's an autistic 15 year old. So there's that aspect.

Nope still not making any sense why you are comparing the two. They were the same age when they rose to prominence.. SO?

ScentOfSawdust · 22/02/2023 12:13

Not the right decision. We cannot decide to strip people of their British citizenship because we do not like their behaviour. That’s fascism. She has not killed anyone; there are not even accusations that she has radicalised others. She is being punished purely for her thoughts. This decision and the precedent it sets should terrify all of us.

Even if we somehow discount the general principle, she was a child who was groomed and who has been through 7 years of trauma. Anyone justifying the decision based on her current attitude is obviously oblivious to the impact trauma can have on a person, but she wouldn’t be the first person whose guilt has been determined by their not reacting in the ‘right’ way.

Lavenderzen · 22/02/2023 12:13

Glad she lost her appeal - right decision.

potniatheron · 22/02/2023 12:13

lieselotte · 22/02/2023 11:51

I don't normally like it when parents get blamed for their nearly grown up childrens' actions, but this is a lesson for certain communities who decide to come to the UK for a better quality of life, but refuse to allow their children to assimilate into UK society.

Someone asked if this would have happened if she'd been white and had American parents. It wouldn't, but because it is highly unlikely that she would have been been drawn into ISIS. She would have been allowed to be a normal Western teenager.

However, I agree that stripping someone of their citizenship is highly suspect and I think that the decision will be reversed at some point, and then she will come back to the UK, face trial and spend a long time in jail.

This is rubbish. Her parents were not ISIS adherents. They did not encourage her to join ISIS. They were just ordinary Muslims, maybe a bit on the conservative side. That's it.

Many of us first gen immigrants struggle a little when growing up, balancing the often more conservative side of their heritage with western values. I know I did. I wasn't allowed boyfriends as a teen, my parents wanted me to stay home and study. I'm grateful for that now as it has paid dividends in later life. But the vast majority of us learn to balance the two sides of our heritage.

Cultural conservatism is not the same as Islamist fundamentalism.

SomeareDeluded · 22/02/2023 12:14

Totally the right decision. She has no remorse and continues to be a danger to uk.

JustForThisOneTime · 22/02/2023 12:14

She is a British citizen or would have been if she didn't have brown skin and if racism wasn't a vote winner. She was born and raised here. It's not fair to wash our hands off her. It's racist.

I don't know if she is dangerous or not or if she is capable of remorsebut she was a child and she was groomed. We need to bring her back and take responsibility for her.

Pointerdogsrule · 22/02/2023 12:14

ItsaMetalBand · 22/02/2023 11:53

Exactly.

She should face trial in Syria, serve her sentence and be deported back to the UK where she was born and reared. Whether you want her back is irrelevant, you don't get to fob her off on a random country just because you don't want her.

Show quote history

Agree.

Its political not legal going on here.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:15

Brefugee · 22/02/2023 12:11

did you read what i wrote? They were the same age when they rose to prominence. And the comments about them are polar opposites: one knew exactly what she was doing apparently, the other is a child and has no clue.

They weren’t the same age when they became known to the general public.
Greta was 14. Begum was 19. No one knew anything about Begum until the fall of ISIS.

Brefugee · 22/02/2023 12:15

Nope still not making any sense why you are comparing the two. They were the same age when they rose to prominence.. SO?

if you can't work it out from 2 very simple descriptions i can't help you. But one last go: either a 15 year old knows what they are doing because they are old enough or they aren't. And there are 2 15 year olds being held to entirely different standards.

It's not rocket science.

FWIW i think 15 year olds generally do know right from wrong. But grooming is a thing so there is that to consider.

kenne · 22/02/2023 12:15

If she has committed crimes she should be tried and sentenced like anyone else. Leaving her in limbo in a camp is not justice.

UnluckyPennsatucky · 22/02/2023 12:15

100% the right decision. We need less people like her here, not more.

She’s a self confessed hater of western culture, so she should be happy to stay where she is. Good riddance.

Butterflyhelp · 22/02/2023 12:16

lieselotte · 22/02/2023 11:52

Like the 15 year olds in Rochdale who 'chose' to have 'older boyfriends' you mean? They should have known better as well

Being groomed and raped is a bit different to choosing to go to a far off country to live with terrorists.

She was groomed....and raped.

But none of this is about her rights IMO. It's all about how that UK thinks it can dump this problem, which is entirely ours, on a much poorer nation. We think we have the moral high ground, but we behave reprehensibly at times.

Pyewhacket · 22/02/2023 12:17

She’s a terrorist ffs, let her rot where she is.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:17

ScentOfSawdust · 22/02/2023 12:13

Not the right decision. We cannot decide to strip people of their British citizenship because we do not like their behaviour. That’s fascism. She has not killed anyone; there are not even accusations that she has radicalised others. She is being punished purely for her thoughts. This decision and the precedent it sets should terrify all of us.

Even if we somehow discount the general principle, she was a child who was groomed and who has been through 7 years of trauma. Anyone justifying the decision based on her current attitude is obviously oblivious to the impact trauma can have on a person, but she wouldn’t be the first person whose guilt has been determined by their not reacting in the ‘right’ way.

Yes I’m sure constructing homicide bomber vests and sewing teenagers into them must have been only “thoughts” and her “trauma” of knowing how many “unbelievers” she has helped to murder can’t be that bad as she has no remorse.

DrBlackbird · 22/02/2023 12:17

mumoffourminimes · 22/02/2023 10:31

She's in a camp surrounded by violent extremists, it's not safe for her to display remorse.

Wrong decision imo. She was groomed and sexually exploited. She was a child.

This ^

There is also a good chance that she is neurodiverse and did not / does not understand full implications of her actions and statements. ‘Not showing enough remorse’ to satisfy would be part of that.

Let’s not forget how unkind the judicial systems are to women who don’t show remorse such as Lindy Chamberlain.

She was 15 fgs… how many 15 year olds do stupid things. I really do not see how she could possibly be a threat to the UK.

Pointerdogsrule · 22/02/2023 12:18

UnluckyPennsatucky · 22/02/2023 12:15

100% the right decision. We need less people like her here, not more.

She’s a self confessed hater of western culture, so she should be happy to stay where she is. Good riddance.

So is this post Brexit UK, love our culture or you lose your passport?

What the fuck did my grand relatives die in World War 2 for?

bellac11 · 22/02/2023 12:18

FoxFeatures · 22/02/2023 10:29

She was 15 and groomed. She was a child.

Whilst I deplore her actions as strongly as everyone else, I can't separate her legal status as a child, from her actions.

Yes there needs to be a legal case for her to answer, but it needs to be done here. Removing someone's citizenship is the thin end of the wedge.

I aagree. The two things are completely separate to me

You dont remove someone's citizenship, you deal with the problem here. She is the UK's responsibility.

SoonBeTeaTime · 22/02/2023 12:18

I say good, she's a terrorist, we aren't safe wherever she is. Never her let her back in.

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 22/02/2023 12:18

@Brefugee Nope you are still not making sense. (To me) Never mind, I am not interested enough in what you're saying to pursue it with you. As you were.....

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 22/02/2023 12:18

I don't know if she is dangerous or not or if she is capable of remorse

So you've no idea if someone still represents a danger to the UK, nor if she's sorry for what she did but we should let her back. Right.

And if she is dangerous and isn't remorseful and thinks that she was absolutely right to do what she did and we let her back, put her on trial, give her a prison sentence from which she'll be released....what then?

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:18

Brefugee · 22/02/2023 12:15

Nope still not making any sense why you are comparing the two. They were the same age when they rose to prominence.. SO?

if you can't work it out from 2 very simple descriptions i can't help you. But one last go: either a 15 year old knows what they are doing because they are old enough or they aren't. And there are 2 15 year olds being held to entirely different standards.

It's not rocket science.

FWIW i think 15 year olds generally do know right from wrong. But grooming is a thing so there is that to consider.

One of the 15yr olds didn’t help commit genocide as an adult…I see no double standards going on.

GyozaGuiting · 22/02/2023 12:19

All these people saying she was a child. SHE WAS, but then she became an adult and continued to support ISIS, continues to lie to protect them and has shown no remorse.

I felt torn in the documentary regarding her children/when she was pregnant and how we should step in then.

Wecanallmakeadifference · 22/02/2023 12:19

On the basis that before she left England she walked around school wearing badges in support of isis and was trying to recruit people to the cause…statements from the children at her school.
On the basis that she was part of the isis morality police…
She thought the people who died in the Manchester bombing deserved it
She isn’t by any means innocent and trafficked as she claimed
Her early interviews showed her real views before her parents stopped her from speaking out as she was and suddenly she changed her clothes and what she said
She shows no remorse because she has none

Shes not stateless as she has dual nationality through her family. The UK removed her British citizenship before Bangladesh, had it been the other way round then yes she would have been left stateless which is a different situation