Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her...
I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

She is a manipulative psychopath. Good riddance.

IMO it's the wrong decision but the reason has nothing to do with Shamina Begum or her individual case. The reason it is a wrong decision is that the UK have made one of their own citizens a stateless refugee and have made her somebody else's problem. She was born, brought up and radicalised in the UK and we need to take responsibility for our own citizens and not leave them for other countries (who are poorer and have less resources) to deal with. I actually think it is outrageous.

I don’t think whether or not she displays remorse should be relevant to the legal question of whether or not the UK government can leave her effectively stateless.

If I was living in a camp full of terrorists I wouldn’t be saying “terrorists are awful I wish I never joined up” either. How is she supposed to denounce ISIS while living with ISIS? That feels like the sort of thing that would get one stabbed pretty fast.

It’s all so sad.

I think it should be much much harder for children to get on a plane without proof of both parents’ consent. It causes so many tragedies.

These are the consequences of her actions, she should never be allowed to set foot in the UK again

She was asked what she missed about the UK and she replied she can't get Mint Aero where she is now.
I am inclined to think she is extremely dull and stupid and as such incapable of realising what she has done and the consequences of it are that she has to stay where she is. She does not seem to be switched on at all. That old saying 'the lights re on but no-one is in' seems to apply to her

I agree - she doesn't have any real connection to Bangladesh.

haven't followed all the ins and outs of the arguments, but I have to say that I feel sorry for her. She was a 15 year old child, who was indoctrinated and whom has suffered greatly from the loss of a three children. I think that her dual nationality went against her. I also feel that there is a misogynistic undertone to this. We sort of expect men/boys to be aggressive, but not young ladies. Because she ran off and joined an extremist group and was female, she consequently received more publicity. If she were to return she could be seen as a poster child and the UK as a soft touch. But other young men have gone off and returned. And we allow that awful hate preacher to remain, whilst paying for his family. I would trade her for him any day! I think that she should have had to do voluntary work alongside female Kurdish victims to prove that she has completely changed though. She is now left in limbo. Bangladesh don't want her. She is now stuck in a detention camp living in a tent in a precarious situation. That doesn't sit easy with me.

Cannot take the risk with her and examples need to be made of her.

I do think this is part of the complexity, but I can’t help but wonder if the empathy towards her would be less if it was a male in the same situation.

Speaking only for myself, im not sure I think this out of empathy, but more that we should, especially as an advantaged nation, take responsibility for the failures of our systems and not dump people to be someone else's problem.

Good. She has shown no remorse despite being given ample airtime, is not intelligent enough to realise why she is hated, and is a symbol of ISIS (whether she likes it or not). She is a lost cause.

Good - the right decision. She knew exactly what she was doing.

A caller on the Jeremy Vine show today - a girl like her - said her family would have known what she was doing when she left for sure. She knew what she was getting into.
For me the distaste came when she showed no emotion for the people ISIS beheaded. She either has to be lacking in grey matter or she is some sort of psycho, and I think the former applies

Pretty much my feelings.

For me it doesn't matter how she comes across or if she has regrets or not. She was a British Citizen, requires British justice, and the British State needed to take responsibility for meting that out, not palm her off onto another country.

On the same logic as this legal decision, why don't we de-citizen all of our criminals and dump them in France?

Presumably the basis for the decision was on whether she is a threat to this country.

I believe as she was a minor there is evidence she was groomed. However, being groomed or being a credible threat to this country are not mutually exclusive. She has shown no remorse for her actions and as a PP said she justified the Manchester bombing which is abhorrent.

I am glad she has lost her appeal

Well said.

I completely agree. I appreciate that some 15 year olds might still be quite naive and unworldly, but that wasn't the case with me or my friends at that age or with a very large proportion of young people. I knew exactly what I was doing at that age and would have fully understood what I was doing, and the possible consequences, if I'd chosen to steal jewellery from my family to pay for my flight to Turkey to join a terrorist group.

It appears to be safe enough for her to wear western style clothes, though.

I think it’s the wrong decision. She is our problem to deal with. We failed to safeguard her as a child, and these are the consequences. She was groomed by a dangerous cult whilst a citizen and resident of this country. She has lived through war, an abusive child marriage and three of her children dying because of a stupid decision she made as a teenager. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think she may have some sort of PTSD affecting her emotions.

She would need to be imprisoned here and deradicalised but we can’t just cast off our citizens when they commit crimes and make them someone else’s problem. Race and religion is definitely a huge part of this played out.

Yes, this is my exact view, too. She's very stupid (which probably can't be helped), and that makes her more hated and dangerous. She lacks any kind of critical thinking capability and she will probably be very easily influenced for the rest of her life. Someone who doesn't get why beheading people is extremely frightening and who has thrown every chance given to her back in the faces of interviewers who were trying to let her give her side of the story, is not a safe person to allow back in the country.

@ChangedmynameagainforChristmas

I agree. She doesn't seem switched on. But I wonder how much of that is due to trauma. She had to give birth three times at a young age in basic circumstances and lost each child. She has no family with her etc and has been kept in a detention centre for four years. To me she may well be traumatized.

I feel conflicted by this too and overwhelmingly sad. She was groomed as a child - persuaded by an older girl from her community and exploited.

On the other hand she hasn't shown understanding or remorse and doesn't seem to be particularly truthful. I understand why the legal case has reached this decision.

What can her future be now though ? That's the sad past.

I would have thought she is more of a threat to this country - and others - being left in a Syrian camp full of terrorists though.

from that POV I would argue it’s better for her to be in this country in a closely monitored situation and facing charges for her actions.

And she’s never been to Bangladesh and the government there have said that they’ll execute her if she ever does go to Bangladesh.

She’s been detained in a Syrian camp since at least 2019. (Some rapists in the UK get 4 year prison sentences and are free after two.)

I find it very disturbing how the UK government has made her stateless when that’s supposed to be illegal. She can’t get a passport in any country in the world, she had no freedom of movement and no prospect of ever getting it. All for a decision she made age 15 after being groomed. Doesn’t feel right does it.

Disagree. She is our responsibility. No country should ever be allowed to make their criminals stateless - it should be against international law. It means there are a huge number of stateless isis fighters trapped in Syria. What is Syria supposed to do them them?
She should come home and face justice here.