Page 4 | Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

Noangelbuthavingfun · 2023-02-22T10:21:41+00:00

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her... I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

Growlybear83 · 22/02/2023 11:05

Sunriseinwonderland · 22/02/2023 10:54

Absolutely disgusting. She was still officially a child when she was trafficked at 15 and lied to about a new dream world in Isis.
I think this is all about race and rascist, if she had been a 15 year old white middle class girl I think the outcome would be very different.
Of course she doesn't come across well, she's lost 3 babies I can't even begin to wonder how awful that must be, is shell shocked and probably has PTSD after an incredibly sheltered upbringing in a closed community followed by domestic violence in Isis and exposure to all kinds of horrors. I'm surprised she can talk at all.

Don't forget that Jack Letts, a white middle class man, was stripped of his citizenship.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 22/02/2023 11:09

Relieved.

Butterflyhelp · 22/02/2023 11:09

Surely if she would be executed for going to Bangladesh, she's entitled to asylum?

I don't disagree with any of the points about how awful she and her behaviour has been but agree "we" created this problem. We can't dump it on a country in the developing world to deal with.

Of course no one "wants" her here, but we can't wash our hands of the problem.

I also think her behaviour now is so strange it's highly likely she either has some learning difficulties or significant trauma or both. Are we realy saying we're a country who sends people like that to death?

flabbygoldfish · 22/02/2023 11:09

Listening to the bbc podcast on her right now. Apparently the three of them went over to join a fourth girl (a friend who was especially close to Begum) who was already there. She essentially communicated with them & arranged their travel etc.

this fourth girl ended up in a camp like Begum but escaped (not hard) to rejoin ISIS. I think once you have been through all that you will never be above suspicion.

bluelavender · 22/02/2023 11:10

Disagree- I think it's really dangerous to say to someone that they are not 'really' British and can have their citizenship stripped.

Also; while she may very well have engaged in heinous acts; she was 15 when she left; and, with hindsight; more information could have been shared with parents about the very actual risks of young people leaving to join Isis

If we are going to have a concept of modern day banishment then this needs to be properly debated and clear rules put in place

StaunchMomma · 22/02/2023 11:10

Her parents say she is not sorry.

The message from security services is that the public are not privvy to the full weight of her crimes.

That's enough for me.

Jux · 22/02/2023 11:11

I know that legally she was still a child when she left BUT I think of dd at that age (she's a few years younger) and dd knew what she was doing back then. If she has regrets, she takes responsibility for the decisions she made; she would be furious and disgusted if anyone tried to tell her she wasn't responsible for her actions back then.

Whammyyammy · 22/02/2023 11:12

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 22/02/2023 11:03

it's also a message to first gen Brits: 'you're not fully British'.

Pretty sure it's not. It's a message to Shamima, that's she's a terrorist supporter and not wanted in the UK.

Zipps · 22/02/2023 11:12

Rocket1982 · 22/02/2023 11:05

@Zipps, I don't want David Carrick here either. Can we strip him of his citizenship and deport him to France please?

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What are you going on about?
I gave my opinion on the terrorist Shamima Begum.

Bryterlayter1 · 22/02/2023 11:12

Rocket1982 · 22/02/2023 10:38

IMO it's the wrong decision but the reason has nothing to do with Shamina Begum or her individual case. The reason it is a wrong decision is that the UK have made one of their own citizens a stateless refugee and have made her somebody else's problem. She was born, brought up and radicalised in the UK and we need to take responsibility for our own citizens and not leave them for other countries (who are poorer and have less resources) to deal with. I actually think it is outrageous.

1000% this!

ChilliBandit · 22/02/2023 11:13

Zipps · 22/02/2023 11:03

100% right decision. She should not be able to get any legal aid for any more appeals.
Majority don't want her here

Yes, let’s just start making legal decisions based on public opinion that will not have any bad consequences. Pitchforks for all!

bizzywiththefizzy · 22/02/2023 11:14

Lets not forget she knew she was going there to be an IS bride . To breed .

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 22/02/2023 11:14

How did her children die? I didn't realize that.

IneedanewTV · 22/02/2023 11:14

StaunchMomma · 22/02/2023 11:10

Her parents say she is not sorry.

The message from security services is that the public are not privvy to the full weight of her crimes.

That's enough for me.

Yes I agree. We really must stop this armchair stuff. We don’t know the full details.

Rocket1982 · 22/02/2023 11:14

Zipps · 22/02/2023 11:12

What are you going on about?
I gave my opinion on the terrorist Shamima Begum.

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It's the same legal principle. Make your problematic citizen someone else's problem by revoking their citizenship. Where do you draw the line legally then?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 22/02/2023 11:15

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 22/02/2023 11:03

it's also a message to first gen Brits: 'you're not fully British'.

It's a message to first gen Brits who go abroad to join murderous religious cults, certainly. Most of them have easily managed not to do that.

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 22/02/2023 11:15

Rocket1982 · 22/02/2023 11:14

It's the same legal principle. Make your problematic citizen someone else's problem by revoking their citizenship. Where do you draw the line legally then?

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Exactly.

And the wailing and rage from these same posters if this was done to the UK.

Saxkia · 22/02/2023 11:16

At 15 she was a child whom had been groomed. Why didn’t authorities question why are three 15 year old girls traveling unaccompanied to a war zone? I actually feel sorry for her and think she needs psychological help.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 11:16

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 22/02/2023 10:57

Imagine another country stripping their citizen of their passport and telling the UK 'she's your problem now'.

The rage in the UK would induce conniptions and coronaries.

No it wouldn’t. We want criminals who do crimes here to face justice here. Not be whisked back to their country of birth for a slap on the wrist because it’s “their problem.”

The whole entire reason there are global extradition agreements is so that foreign criminals can actually be nabbed anywhere and then brought to the country where they committed their crimes to face justice.

Look at the case of 19yo Harry Dunn. Hit & killed by a US woman driving on the wrong side of the road while innocently stopped at a red light on his motorcycle. She fled the U.K. to the US and tried to claim diplomatic immunity. We fought tooth and nail to bring her back to the U.K. to face justice here because she committed her crime here.

We wouldn’t care if the also US took her passport/citizenship that’s a completely separate issue.

Most of the world feels the same way about criminals…doesn’t matter what their nationality is or was, they should face justice in the country in which they did their crimes.

Begum has been doing all this specifically to delay being brought to trial in Syria and in the hopes she can avoid trial there altogether by making out she is a victim and not a criminal.

ChilliBandit · 22/02/2023 11:16

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 22/02/2023 11:14

How did her children die? I didn't realize that.

One died of pneumonia in the refugee camp. The elder two I think died of malnutrition and poor conditions from living in Syria.

Butterflyhelp · 22/02/2023 11:17

IneedanewTV · 22/02/2023 11:14

Yes I agree. We really must stop this armchair stuff. We don’t know the full details.

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But it doesn't actually matter what she did. No one's arguing that it wasn't that bad and she should be allowed back for that reason.

The point is we can't strip someone of citizenship in order to dump our problem on a developing nation. How is that OK?

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 11:18

bluelavender · 22/02/2023 11:10

Disagree- I think it's really dangerous to say to someone that they are not 'really' British and can have their citizenship stripped.

Also; while she may very well have engaged in heinous acts; she was 15 when she left; and, with hindsight; more information could have been shared with parents about the very actual risks of young people leaving to join Isis

If we are going to have a concept of modern day banishment then this needs to be properly debated and clear rules put in place

Well it’s worked well since 1983…so it’s not like it is a new law that allows the stripping of citizenship for being a serial killer terrorist.

ChilliBandit · 22/02/2023 11:18

Butterflyhelp · 22/02/2023 11:17

But it doesn't actually matter what she did. No one's arguing that it wasn't that bad and she should be allowed back for that reason.

The point is we can't strip someone of citizenship in order to dump our problem on a developing nation. How is that OK?

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Agree completely. It’s like when we deported people to Australia.

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 22/02/2023 11:19

Look at the case of 19yo Harry Dunn. Hit & killed by a US woman driving on the wrong side of the road while innocently stopped at a red light on his motorcycle. She fled the U.K. to the US and tried to claim diplomatic immunity. We fought tooth and nail to bring her back to the U.K. to face justice here because she committed her crime here.

We wouldn’t care if the also US took her passport/citizenship that’s a completely separate issue.

You know that the US is not going to strip that woman of her citizenship.
Try and keep your posts relevant.

Rocket1982 · 22/02/2023 11:20

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 11:16

No it wouldn’t. We want criminals who do crimes here to face justice here. Not be whisked back to their country of birth for a slap on the wrist because it’s “their problem.”

The whole entire reason there are global extradition agreements is so that foreign criminals can actually be nabbed anywhere and then brought to the country where they committed their crimes to face justice.

Look at the case of 19yo Harry Dunn. Hit & killed by a US woman driving on the wrong side of the road while innocently stopped at a red light on his motorcycle. She fled the U.K. to the US and tried to claim diplomatic immunity. We fought tooth and nail to bring her back to the U.K. to face justice here because she committed her crime here.

We wouldn’t care if the also US took her passport/citizenship that’s a completely separate issue.

Most of the world feels the same way about criminals…doesn’t matter what their nationality is or was, they should face justice in the country in which they did their crimes.

Begum has been doing all this specifically to delay being brought to trial in Syria and in the hopes she can avoid trial there altogether by making out she is a victim and not a criminal.

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Actually I think we would care if the US took her passport. Once a foreign criminal has served their time they will be deported if they have no right to reside in the UK. They are not suddenly entitled to a British passport and benefits etc.