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Original poster

Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

604 replies

Noangelbuthavingfun · 22/02/2023 10:21

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her...
I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
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8
Bikechic · 22/02/2023 23:25

I've just watched the documentary about her. It is absolutely the wrong decision not to allow her back to Britain. She has made mistakes and she's been radicalized, but she's been made into a scape goat. We should be better than this.

IreallyLikeCrisps · 22/02/2023 23:27

I can't say I care either way!

Was she groomed- yes, most likely.

Has she been 'made an example of'- probably! But I can't say that's a bad thing. Otherwise there will be others following her lead thinking if it doesn't work out they can just claim they were groomed.

Unfair on her- a bit, yes.

Though, I do hope she has learnt from her experience (losing 3 babies has to be hard), can move on from her experience and live out the rest of her life in peace. Probably not very likely, though.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/02/2023 23:33

The law and morality do not always align ... Because morality and politics do not always align - politics establish the law

Very true, mixedrecycling; however making a moral case for something - whether justified or not - is rather different to making a purely legal one

Rightly or wrongly the current statutes are what we've got, and I'm just a bit uncomfortable with the way the narrative swings from law to morality according to taste

chaosmaker · 22/02/2023 23:57

Completely wrong decision. Interesting people on the radio talking about from other countries perspectives as in why can't they remove citizenship of their own criminals and refuse to take them back
Also there was a program about an ex far right member who now works to de-radicalise and said it's easy to be turned into ways of thinking you'd never consider before. Shamima Begum was 15 and I just wonder if she'd have been treated this way if she were white or if there'd have been any sort of public outcry. Did she actually commit any terrorist acts herself?

greenspaces4peace · 23/02/2023 00:15

I’ll believe that there are details we are not privy to and that security forces know more than than is being reported.

freyamay74 · 23/02/2023 06:38

My thoughts are that the security services know a lot more about the risk she presents than we do, and that the decision has been made based on evidence, not emotions.

And even if you believe she is a 'victim,' the same could be said about the upbringing of many terrorists or others who've committed terrible crimes. Being a victim yourself doesn't absolve you of responsibility for doing terrible things to others.

ChilliBandit · 23/02/2023 06:46

chaosmaker · 22/02/2023 23:57

Completely wrong decision. Interesting people on the radio talking about from other countries perspectives as in why can't they remove citizenship of their own criminals and refuse to take them back
Also there was a program about an ex far right member who now works to de-radicalise and said it's easy to be turned into ways of thinking you'd never consider before. Shamima Begum was 15 and I just wonder if she'd have been treated this way if she were white or if there'd have been any sort of public outcry. Did she actually commit any terrorist acts herself?

I agree it’s easier than people on this thread seem to think. I went to University with someone who was modern Jewish, was a leftie liberal, ate bacon, marched for Palestine, very critical of Israel’s actions there. She ended up joining the IDF, is now married to an IDF soldier and lives in the West Bank as an orthodox Jew and full on right wing Zionist. I think she was just desperate to fit in and be loved. They are powerful motivators, especially for teenage girls.

I’ve just read that the girl who went to ISIS first, Sharmeema, her mother died in January 2014 and her father remarried in September 2014, she was becoming more religious and was in a country that can be hostile to Muslims and ethnic minorities. I can see how she was an easy grooming target.

ChilliBandit · 23/02/2023 06:48

@freyamay74 - no one thinks she’s innocent. She is our responsibility to keep from hurting anyone else though.

Butterflyhelp · 23/02/2023 07:04

freyamay74 · 23/02/2023 06:38

My thoughts are that the security services know a lot more about the risk she presents than we do, and that the decision has been made based on evidence, not emotions.

And even if you believe she is a 'victim,' the same could be said about the upbringing of many terrorists or others who've committed terrible crimes. Being a victim yourself doesn't absolve you of responsibility for doing terrible things to others.

No one's saying she's not responsible or shouldn't be punished.

Butterflyhelp · 23/02/2023 07:08

IreallyLikeCrisps · 22/02/2023 23:27

I can't say I care either way!

Was she groomed- yes, most likely.

Has she been 'made an example of'- probably! But I can't say that's a bad thing. Otherwise there will be others following her lead thinking if it doesn't work out they can just claim they were groomed.

Unfair on her- a bit, yes.

Though, I do hope she has learnt from her experience (losing 3 babies has to be hard), can move on from her experience and live out the rest of her life in peace. Probably not very likely, though.

It's not about whether it's fair on her, it about whether it's right for us to wash our hands of the problem a mnd leave it to a developing nation.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of that, it surely must be a concern if you think she's a risk to national security. Shouldn't we be taking control of that ourselves? It's not like terrorists based in other countries can't hurt us!

ChangedmynameagainforChristmas · 23/02/2023 07:59

@greenspaces4peace · Yesterday 18:51
For those who believe she was groomed do you feel her parents are responsible?

Groomed or not - her parents would most definitely have known what was going on. There are no innocent parties here apart from the three babies she lost

Bikechic · 23/02/2023 08:05

What crimes is she actually accused of?

Andypandy799 · 23/02/2023 08:10

Shame all the do gooders on here don’t run our country, and at the same time open our borders to anyone who wants somewhere better to live. Ffs 🤦‍♂️ 🤬

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 23/02/2023 10:24

Andypandy799 · 23/02/2023 08:10

Shame all the do gooders on here don’t run our country, and at the same time open our borders to anyone who wants somewhere better to live. Ffs 🤦‍♂️ 🤬

Yes. Imagine thinking that our country should deal with its own criminals born, grown and radicalised here rather than palming them off on others…

What do-good we are 🙄

Atethehalloweenchocs · 23/02/2023 10:58

I felt more sympathetic than I expected to after watching the documentary. But regardless of how I feel about her, I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea of taking citizenship away in the way it has been. As a pp has said, this seems to be the thin end of the wedge. She has been treated so differently from the over 300 men who are back here and in prison for their involvement.

bellabasset · 23/02/2023 11:13

While I can understand the government's attitude that if you join a terrorist state you shouldn't expect to come back I think that in time she'll win her appeal.I watched the documentary and as a teenager of 19 she'd had 5 pregnancies resulting in the births of 3 children, all of whom died as a result of malnutrition. It's accepted she was groomed, she doesn't want to live with her husband whom she says was abusive.

coolmum123 · 23/02/2023 11:18

Atethehalloweenchocs · 23/02/2023 10:58

I felt more sympathetic than I expected to after watching the documentary. But regardless of how I feel about her, I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea of taking citizenship away in the way it has been. As a pp has said, this seems to be the thin end of the wedge. She has been treated so differently from the over 300 men who are back here and in prison for their involvement.

I thought I would be more sympathetic after watching but felt the opposite. I feel sad for her but I didn't get the feeling that she actually believed what she was saying about regretting going etc.

Flegm · 23/02/2023 11:30

*Yes. Imagine thinking that our country should deal with its own criminals born, grown and radicalised here rather than palming them off on others…

What do-good we are 🙄*

Maybe Syrians would prefer dealing with her them self than allowing her to have a slap on the wrist? Or Bangladesh. Does anyone know their position on the matter?

Mirabai · 23/02/2023 11:31

Atethehalloweenchocs · 23/02/2023 10:58

I felt more sympathetic than I expected to after watching the documentary. But regardless of how I feel about her, I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea of taking citizenship away in the way it has been. As a pp has said, this seems to be the thin end of the wedge. She has been treated so differently from the over 300 men who are back here and in prison for their involvement.

Exactly, this can’t be justified.

Jourdain11 · 23/02/2023 11:42

Flegm · 23/02/2023 11:30

*Yes. Imagine thinking that our country should deal with its own criminals born, grown and radicalised here rather than palming them off on others…

What do-good we are 🙄*

Maybe Syrians would prefer dealing with her them self than allowing her to have a slap on the wrist? Or Bangladesh. Does anyone know their position on the matter?

What right or interest can Bangladesh have to have any say on the matter?

Flegm · 23/02/2023 11:50

Your thoughts on Syria who have a direct interest? I'm sure the families of those terrorised would rather she's dealt with there.

purpledalmation · 23/02/2023 12:04

Thank goodness.

gemeouttahere · 23/02/2023 12:11

I find all of this troubling with conflicting information. Do I think she's the UK's responsibility? Yes. Do I want her back in the UK? Not really but I presume if she were to return she'd be straight to prison and some rehab programme. I don't think she should have been made stateless.
I also think she wasn't totally groomed but sought out that nasty propaganda, like pushing on an open door. She was young but I think she bought the ISIS message and had naive, romantic ideas about the utopia of the caliphate and finding a hero husband. Not to mention the peer pressure or mimicry of her hardline friend Shameena.
Having heard the BBC podcast and seen various TV programmes about her it's clear she's back tracked on some of her unpalatable views and is vague or outright lying about other aspects of her life as part of ISIS society, obviously she has to reframe that to stand a chance of being reinstated as a British citizen. She certainly seems a bit glib and blank about disturbing stuff, lacks feeling and understanding and so it's hard to be sympathetic to her. However, she is our problem to deal with.

Soapyspuds · 23/02/2023 12:13

I do agree that she is our problem to deal with but given that I do not trust our services to deal with it, I am more than happy for her to remain where she is permanently. It is not worth the risk letting her back.

Delatron · 23/02/2023 12:53

I felt zero sympathy after the documentary (was expecting maybe to be swayed).

The bottom line is - the government have more information on her than any of us do. So how can you be sympathetic? We don’t know the extent of what she has done?

We are all interpreting the interview in different ways- that’s our perspective but we don’t have all the information.

She has said she doesn’t feel sad about her children dying anymore (how do you ever get over 3 children dying?).
I don’t think she has a low IQ and I don’t think she’s neurodiverse. That’s making excuses for her behaviour.

She sought out and watched beheadings online. And said it didn’t affect her. I think we can all come to a conclusion as to what type of person does that.