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Original poster

Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

604 replies

Noangelbuthavingfun · 22/02/2023 10:21

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her...
I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
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8
mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 22:29

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 22:17

That’s the law been around for decades.

It’s reflects a kind of responsibility that offsets the bonus of the U.K. letting you have the right to more than one citizenship. (Some countries do not allow dual/multiple citizenships- you have to renounce any other ones you might be born with).

In return for having the right to live and work in more of the world than most people, the only thing you have to do is promise not join an enemy actively fighting a war or engaging in terrorist attacks on the U.K..

If you do, then you could lose your citizenship because you chose to side with the enemy literally at war with the U.K.

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In his case he had been studying in the UK, having entered the country legally as a student.

Why should he have gone to Israel - where he had no connections, and objected to many aspects of Israeli policy and human rights? Just because they would have allowed his application?

If country X decides to allow any British citizen to become a national, does that mean you should be able to be stripped of your citizenship on those grounds?

Bbq1 · 22/02/2023 22:30

She's seem as inhuman due to the acts she was involved in. That coupled with the complete lack of remorse is not a person any country wants. Leave her in the camp - she made her choice.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 22:30

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 22:26

He came to the UK as a student, and was living here when stripped of citizenship.

His family managed to leave after that - having been persecuted - and some went to Israel AFTER he had been living in the UK as a student. Others were able to claim asylum in the USA, again AFTER he had been living in the UK.

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So a foreign student from a ME country is stripped of ME country citizenship while here studying and you think the U.K. should have done what exactly? He wasn’t a British citizen, he has no right to diplomatic assistance. And anyway, even if he were a British citizen (formerly a dual national), The British Government cannot interfere in the sovereign acts of another country- which includes citizenship decisions.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 22:33

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 22:29

In his case he had been studying in the UK, having entered the country legally as a student.

Why should he have gone to Israel - where he had no connections, and objected to many aspects of Israeli policy and human rights? Just because they would have allowed his application?

If country X decides to allow any British citizen to become a national, does that mean you should be able to be stripped of your citizenship on those grounds?

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Presumably he would need a passport from somewhere to renew his U.K. foreign student visa. So it seems prudent he would go stay with his family in Israel, get the citizenship and passport- there’s no wait or residency requirement and then renewed his U.K. foreign student visa.

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 22:42

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 22:33

Presumably he would need a passport from somewhere to renew his U.K. foreign student visa. So it seems prudent he would go stay with his family in Israel, get the citizenship and passport- there’s no wait or residency requirement and then renewed his U.K. foreign student visa.

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His family weren't in Israel at that point - he lost his citizenship at the point when the persecution ramped up in his home country.

The Home Office did have to acknowledge that there was nowhere for him to go and let him stay in the end. Because there was nowhere to deport him. There was nowhere to go for a passport to renew his visa.

Over the next few years his family managed to leave, and mostly go to Israel or the USA.

He was stateless for a decade or so, then was finally allowed UK citizenship because he and my aunt had married and had a family (they were living together but not married before then).

Again - why should he have had to become an Israeli citizen, with no connection to the country? Yes, some of his family went there subsequently, why does that mean he should have gone there?

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 22:44

I also don't get why people keep saying "she was involved in beheadings".

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 22:47

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 22:42

His family weren't in Israel at that point - he lost his citizenship at the point when the persecution ramped up in his home country.

The Home Office did have to acknowledge that there was nowhere for him to go and let him stay in the end. Because there was nowhere to deport him. There was nowhere to go for a passport to renew his visa.

Over the next few years his family managed to leave, and mostly go to Israel or the USA.

He was stateless for a decade or so, then was finally allowed UK citizenship because he and my aunt had married and had a family (they were living together but not married before then).

Again - why should he have had to become an Israeli citizen, with no connection to the country? Yes, some of his family went there subsequently, why does that mean he should have gone there?

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The HO just not wanting to know, unfortunately. It sounds all extremely unfair!

And yeah, I agree, expecting someone to go live in a country they don't know and have no connections to just because they're a particular religion is crazed. And they wonder why Israel is now politically like it is!

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 22:49

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 22:42

His family weren't in Israel at that point - he lost his citizenship at the point when the persecution ramped up in his home country.

The Home Office did have to acknowledge that there was nowhere for him to go and let him stay in the end. Because there was nowhere to deport him. There was nowhere to go for a passport to renew his visa.

Over the next few years his family managed to leave, and mostly go to Israel or the USA.

He was stateless for a decade or so, then was finally allowed UK citizenship because he and my aunt had married and had a family (they were living together but not married before then).

Again - why should he have had to become an Israeli citizen, with no connection to the country? Yes, some of his family went there subsequently, why does that mean he should have gone there?

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You said he faffed around claiming to be stateless for 15yrs…it didn’t take 15yrs for his family to flee to the US and Israel. He had a connection to Israel for most of this time. No family here.

He is lucky the Home Office let him stay.

Wecanallmakeadifference · 22/02/2023 22:52

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 22:44

I also don't get why people keep saying "she was involved in beheadings".

It was in the times, part of an early interview with her and is already part of her wiki profile would you believe.

Shamima Begum lost her appeal....
Shamima Begum lost her appeal....
Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 22:54

Do I have a comprehension problem? Because that doesn't imply "involved in beheadings" to me.

Wecanallmakeadifference · 22/02/2023 22:56

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 22:54

Do I have a comprehension problem? Because that doesn't imply "involved in beheadings" to me.

My post related to why people may be referring to this
ie why the topic of beheadings is coming up

please don’t be rude. I am simply offering up a possible answer

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 22:59

How was I rude?

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 23:00

I just meant, am I missing something? Because I'm not getting it.

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 23:03

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 22:49

You said he faffed around claiming to be stateless for 15yrs…it didn’t take 15yrs for his family to flee to the US and Israel. He had a connection to Israel for most of this time. No family here.

He is lucky the Home Office let him stay.

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Faffed around? 'Claiming' to be stateless? He was stateless. He was of Jewish heritage, but not observant. He didn't want to live in a Jewish state - with a dodgy human rights record for Palestinians. FFS, he enjoys a bacon butty for breakfast.

He got on with his life, including becoming a higher rate tax payer in the UK, as well as marrying my aunt (white British for generations) and having a family - none of whom see themselves as Jewish. They celebrate Jewish festivals as well as having Easter eggs and a roast turkey at Christmas.

His family subsequently went to other countries - why should that oblige him to move there too?

Wecanallmakeadifference · 22/02/2023 23:05

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 23:00

I just meant, am I missing something? Because I'm not getting it.

Apologies @Jourdain11 your post came across as sarcasm. The problem with not being face to face I suppose.

I think anyone posting about her being involved in beheadings are either confused or using the wrong wording and really just referring to her comments made in her earlier interviews regarding beheadings. In that she knew they happened, they happened where she was , she saw severed heads in bins, what she thought about that etc

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 23:06

I have a brother. If he moves to another country does that mean I can be stripped of my citizenship and be expected to move there as well?

BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 22/02/2023 23:07

There is just something off about her. I don’t believe she regrets the choices she’s made, not really. She also comes across as having quite a low IQ. She’s looking to salvage what is left to her as she’s in a no win situation, that’s all. I think it’s the right decision.

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 23:08

There really is a huge (racist? xenophobic?) double standard here

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 23:08

BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 22/02/2023 23:07

There is just something off about her. I don’t believe she regrets the choices she’s made, not really. She also comes across as having quite a low IQ. She’s looking to salvage what is left to her as she’s in a no win situation, that’s all. I think it’s the right decision.

And we should strip Ian Huntley of his citizenship as well?

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 23:09

Wecanallmakeadifference · 22/02/2023 23:05

Apologies @Jourdain11 your post came across as sarcasm. The problem with not being face to face I suppose.

I think anyone posting about her being involved in beheadings are either confused or using the wrong wording and really just referring to her comments made in her earlier interviews regarding beheadings. In that she knew they happened, they happened where she was , she saw severed heads in bins, what she thought about that etc

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No worries - btw, when I'm sarcastic I lay it on way thicker than that, subtlety is not my thing in this area😉

I follow. For me, "involved in" implies active engagement. Like, specially going to watch. From what I heard her say, it was heads in bins that she walked past. As in, they were there and she saw them. (Apparently without being fazed.)

WarWhatIsItGoodFor · 22/02/2023 23:12

Wrong decision.
She was groomed and trafficked into sexual exploitation at the age of 15 yet she knew her mind according to the baying mob? I guess the white girls in Rotherham who were 15 also knew what they were getting into? We all know why she is being treated differently and non-white people with parents who have dual nationality should be very afraid. White British nationals with no ties to other countries can do whatever they please but will not be stripped of their citizenship- it’s a 2-tier system of citizenship.

Wecanallmakeadifference · 22/02/2023 23:14

Jourdain11 · 22/02/2023 23:09

No worries - btw, when I'm sarcastic I lay it on way thicker than that, subtlety is not my thing in this area😉

I follow. For me, "involved in" implies active engagement. Like, specially going to watch. From what I heard her say, it was heads in bins that she walked past. As in, they were there and she saw them. (Apparently without being fazed.)

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Yes I agree that’s all I’ve read too.
I’ll keep an eye out for that sarcasm of yours 😆

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/02/2023 23:19

... every court, including the Supreme Court ruled that she wasn’t made stateless because of her right to Bangladeshi citizenship

So I understand

Not being an expert in the field I can't say what the rights and wrongs of this are, but there really do seem to be some who are declaring the decisions made to be illegal purely because they want them to be, rather than because they are

And even I know that's not how the law works ...

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 23:23

The law and morality do not always align

mixedrecycling · 22/02/2023 23:24

Because morality and politics do not always align - politics establish the law