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Original poster

Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

604 replies

Noangelbuthavingfun · 22/02/2023 10:21

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her...
I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

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8
WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 22/02/2023 12:19

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:20

Pointerdogsrule · 22/02/2023 12:18

So is this post Brexit UK, love our culture or you lose your passport?

What the fuck did my grand relatives die in World War 2 for?

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No, it’s from 1983 and it’s don’t bear arms against us by joining an enemy at war with us or lose your citizenship. Begum is guilty of this as an adult.

lovescats3 · 22/02/2023 12:20

So you are saying neurodiverse people don't understand murder is wrong?

coolmum123 · 22/02/2023 12:21

Catspyjamas17 · 22/02/2023 11:34

What would the courts/Home Secretary decide if she she had British born parents? It's only children of immigrant parents (even when born in the UK themselves) who even give this option to the Home Secretary. It seems highly discriminatory.

I may be wrong but I thought Jihadi Jack had had his citizenship taken away too. So don't think its to do with race or having 1st generation immigrant parents.

JustForThisOneTime · 22/02/2023 12:21

StalkedByASpider · 22/02/2023 12:02

It's exactly the same for all intents and purposes. Jack Letts had never visited Canada and had no links with it. But he was eligible for residency by virtue of his family - same as Begum with Bangladesh.

As it happens, I'm not necessarily sure that stripping her of her residency is the right decision, but it's a bit frustrating listening to the claims that it's only because she's a woman and brown-skinned. I don't think that was why Javid took the decision he did (and I'm no fan of him either so not defending his actions!). It's more about wanting to send out a message and looking tough - I think it was probably more about this than the threat that she undoubtedly would represent.

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It's not the same at all. As he had dual nationality it meant that when he was stripped off his British nationality he was still a Canadian citizen. He wasn't left stateless. Shamima Begum does not have dual nationality and Bangladesh have already said they would give her nationality.

Also,

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 22/02/2023 12:22

Sirius3030 · 22/02/2023 12:07

She was a child.
If she returned to the UK, as the most scrutinised person ever, there is about 0% chance she would commit an offence.
Time to show some humanity.

She was a child.

Yes but she was 15. She knew right from wrong. The age of Criminal responsibility is after all 10 in the UK. It can't swing both ways from a 10 year child could be charged with murder and a 15 year old doesn't know what she's doing. Its either one way or another society can't have it both ways.

Also as I've alluded and will keep on alluding to what humanity has she shown not being fazed by heads in bins. I could be wildly wrong here but I can't help thinking had been or even acted remorseful things may have been different. V

Pointerdogsrule · 22/02/2023 12:22

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

The post said, ' a self confessed hater of western culture' that's not a reason to take someone's passport for fucks sake.

Its a free country, hard won by men and women to THINK how you want, ACT within the law. In a free and democratic country , you break the law you are punished, we don't have thought police yet.

Mirabai · 22/02/2023 12:23

@JustForThisOneTime Agreed.

Wrong decision. A patriarchy picking on a what was then a 15 year old girl, who is not very bright, and was undoubtedly groomed, is an unedifying sight, using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We have far more dangerous men in this country in prison and out of it. We don’t even deprive convicted serial killers of citizenship.

BloodyHellKen · 22/02/2023 12:23

Sirzy · 22/02/2023 10:46

I would have thought she is more of a threat to this country - and others - being left in a Syrian camp full of terrorists though.

from that POV I would argue it’s better for her to be in this country in a closely monitored situation and facing charges for her actions.

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@Sirzy that is a fair enough comment. I suppose (in the short term at least) it is cheaper to keep her out rather than to foot the bill for her incarceration in this country.

WindUpPenguin · 22/02/2023 12:24

I think she should keep her citizenship and face legal consequences here, on the basis that she was radicalised in this country, and we should take responsibility for that. I think agree that she lacks remorse, and she comes across as an extremist sympathiser, but this is all the more reason to bring her back. Other extremists have already escaped from the camp where she is being held.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:25

Butterflyhelp · 22/02/2023 12:16

She was groomed....and raped.

But none of this is about her rights IMO. It's all about how that UK thinks it can dump this problem, which is entirely ours, on a much poorer nation. We think we have the moral high ground, but we behave reprehensibly at times.

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Not really raped. She was of age of consent where she got married. Her husband raped their Yazidi slave girls though. Begum beat them and punished them. Kind of depressing that you would conflate her situation with that of the slave girls in her home. It’s the Yazidi survivors by the way clamouring for her to face justice in Syria and not get her citizenship back or come back to the U.K.

Groomed….not convinced as she said early on that she had watched all the beheading videos online, read about their attacks and that was ok with them and so she knew she wasn’t going to some family friendly utopia like some are saying.

Farcis · 22/02/2023 12:25

FoxFeatures · 22/02/2023 10:29

She was 15 and groomed. She was a child.

Whilst I deplore her actions as strongly as everyone else, I can't separate her legal status as a child, from her actions.

Yes there needs to be a legal case for her to answer, but it needs to be done here. Removing someone's citizenship is the thin end of the wedge.

^^this

SoupDragon · 22/02/2023 12:26

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:15

They weren’t the same age when they became known to the general public.
Greta was 14. Begum was 19. No one knew anything about Begum until the fall of ISIS.

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She was all over the news when she left the uk at 15.

bellac11 · 22/02/2023 12:27

How come people are now inventing that she has autism?

And if she did, so what?

Teaandtoast3 · 22/02/2023 12:27

I feel very torn on this. I agree with both view points.

JustForThisOneTime · 22/02/2023 12:28

JustForThisOneTime · 22/02/2023 12:21

It's not the same at all. As he had dual nationality it meant that when he was stripped off his British nationality he was still a Canadian citizen. He wasn't left stateless. Shamima Begum does not have dual nationality and Bangladesh have already said they would give her nationality.

Also,

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Typo..I meant Bangladesh has refused to give her citizenship.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:28

SoupDragon · 22/02/2023 12:26

She was all over the news when she left the uk at 15.

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For about 15mins. That’s not rising to prominence.

Lambchop1 · 22/02/2023 12:29

Sirzy · 22/02/2023 10:35

I do think this is part of the complexity, but I can’t help but wonder if the empathy towards her would be less if it was a male in the same situation.

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If she was male there would be no chanting of human rights, she would be locked up and forgotten. She has only had all the press as she was a woman and 15. She shows no remorse at all. I think she has serious issues and I wouldn’t want her living next to me.

Aphrathestorm · 22/02/2023 12:29

She's been given a worse sentence than the boy murderers of James Bulger.

Brown and a girl. No chance in our 'justice' system.

SoupDragon · 22/02/2023 12:29

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:28

For about 15mins. That’s not rising to prominence.

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You said "no one knew anything" which is clearly wrong.

Cakemonger · 22/02/2023 12:29

Anyone justifying the decision based on her current attitude is obviously oblivious to the impact trauma can have on a person.

This. I remember being struck by something in a Guardian article about some documentary makers who had spent time with her in Syria who came to believe she was incapable of expressing any emotion due to severe trauma.

Chasedbythechaser · 22/02/2023 12:30

ChilliBandit · 22/02/2023 10:45

I think it’s the wrong decision. She is our problem to deal with. We failed to safeguard her as a child, and these are the consequences. She was groomed by a dangerous cult whilst a citizen and resident of this country. She has lived through war, an abusive child marriage and three of her children dying because of a stupid decision she made as a teenager. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think she may have some sort of PTSD affecting her emotions.

She would need to be imprisoned here and deradicalised but we can’t just cast off our citizens when they commit crimes and make them someone else’s problem. Race and religion is definitely a huge part of this played out.

I was going to post out a very similar reply but ChilliBandit said it better.

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:30

JustForThisOneTime · 22/02/2023 12:28

Typo..I meant Bangladesh has refused to give her citizenship.

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No they haven’t. She was born with Bangladeshi citizenship
freemovement.org.uk/shamima-begum-loses-statelessness-argument-against-citizenship-deprivation/

Bangldesh can’t refuse her something she has had since birth.

User98866 · 22/02/2023 12:30

I’ve been listening to the ‘I’m not a monster’ podcast about her. It’s absolutely tragic. She was a victim, she was a child. She should be treated the same way as we would treat others who were groomed and joined an abusive cult. It’s disgusting the way we’ve turned our backs. The same people who are no doubt outraged about the Rotherham grooming gangs for some reason have no compassion for Shamima. Wonder why that could be?

Onnabugeisha · 22/02/2023 12:30

SoupDragon · 22/02/2023 12:29

You said "no one knew anything" which is clearly wrong.

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🙄

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