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Missing Woman Nicola Bulley 5

1000 replies

ofwarren · 08/02/2023 20:38

A new thread about the disappearance of Nicola Bulley in St Michael's on Wyre, Lancashire.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Activelyannoyed · 09/02/2023 17:04

Daisymaker · 09/02/2023 16:57

How do you tell two little girls that someone can just disappear, they must be terrified?

Well they didn’t and you wouldn’t. They have said they have told them mummy has got lost and everyone is looking for her. At some point they will need to change that story , to mummy had an accident or whatever is the outcome.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/02/2023 17:05

Plitvice · 09/02/2023 17:02

@lifeturnsonadime I think she would count as too distinctive looking to pull it off. She has a really lovely, unique face which has been plastered all over the media for two weeks.

Yes but if you were planning to leave you'd probably have it in a contingency plan to lay low for a period.

If you are being aided by a third party you might not need to be seen for quite a long time and certainly not locally.

I really don't think this is what has happened here but it is not the technical impossibility that some people think. It is actually easier to leave the country without being spotted than many would imagine.

Tamarindtree · 09/02/2023 17:06

schloss · 09/02/2023 14:43

I have read this thread, and the previous ones, I do not usually comment on such things however I would like to give some insight into how "witnesses" to events are not always correct in what they report. My job can involve asking a number of people about certain events, it is a known issue that people differ in what they saw and report, there is no malicious action involved, it is purely how people behave.

I have been in the situation of asking very professional people to describe an event, I can receive very differing reports, to the point when it becomes almost impossible to know what is correct. Added to that, some people are easily influenced by the people questioning them, therefore providing the answers they "think" those people want to hear.

So in this situation, the differing narratives as to where the mobile phone was, could purely be the witness or witnesses, believing it was on the bench, but if a police officer then asks "are you sure it was no on the floor?" a witness then may answer " thinking about it, the phone may have been on the floor".

This scenario is a know issue when gathering information, so unless there are photographs or CCTV to confirm a situation, it is known that witnesses do not always provide 100% correct information as to what happened. It could be what it happening to cause the differences in reports as to the timeline and what happened?

Moving on the the police actions (this is not a criticism of Lancs police), they are only human, some humans will stick very to an initial opinion and not deviate from that opinion no matter what, others will be more open to outside help. The situation with the other search team, is it a case of the police had their feather ruffled and only allowed a small amount of "help" from him, with opinions differing as to if a body was in the water and if so, if it would be found?

A different force may have been more open and appreciated an external opinion and help? The sudden departure of the search team may explain the situation being the former rather than the latter?

In many professional environments having information means you can control the situation, if you do not have the information, sometimes behaviour is affected to the extent outward actions come across as though information is being held back, in order to protect the belief in only one scenario and the lack of proper information to confirm it. It can almost be an act of self protection.

I have certainly come across many professionals who will stick like glue to a scenario rather than allow others to assist or provide an alternattive narrative, on the other hand I have worked with many professionals who will consider anything and are very much a "say what you think, no matter how ludicrous it sounds, as it may help".

Moving on, I have looked at the latest available ONS stats on suicide - for women 45% are by hanging or similar, deliberate drowing is only the 4th most common method of suicide and is a very low percentage.

Finally, add in the media and I am not surprised there is an element of differing information being available and sometime Lancs police looking like they are witholding information (they may be for good reasons). I think the statement "we believe the most likely scenario is this was an accidental slip into the water with subsequent drowing, the reasons for this are X,Y,Z. We will pursue that opinion because of X,Y and Z but of course will always keep an open mind to other scenario, but the information we have means other scenario are unlikely" would have been better received and caused less speculation.

My friend and I witnessed an elderly woman make a stupid mistake of trying to cross a busy highstreet road instead of waking to the pedestrian crossing.

She was hit by a car and went on the bonnet before falling to the ground as he slammed his brakes on.

The driver got out and screamed and impulsively ran and was brought down by some men the other side of the road who then started kicking him!

My friend and I witnessed everything at exactly the same time.

The driver was a young man and was later exonerated of any wrong doing As he had been driving at the correct speed and was insured and his car MOTD and taxes etc. He just panicked and tried to flee in his distress as he thought he had instantly killed her.

She was unconscious and survived with various broken bones.

The police station was a minute away and they were on the scene within minutes and an ambulance came very quickly.

This was circa 1981 so no mobile phones or CCTV etc.

The police later informed me that my friend and I had given different descriptions of the woman and the driver.

I was correct in that it was an elderly lady wearing a green coat and my friend had described her as being a middle aged woman wearing a beige coat!

I said the driver was around thirty wearing a black leather jacket and got the jacket right but his age wrong as he was 21.

My friend got his age eight, early 20/ but said he was wearing a brown suit jacket!

We were young women with perfect eyesight and our witness descriptions vastly differed!

Diverging · 09/02/2023 17:06

What is the point of this thread if only a few are allowed to comment, other than to agree with the police statements on day one?

Lot’s of us are commenting and absolutely questioning the police’s (apparent) approach. Not agreeing with the police at all.

They have provided no plausible evidence for their theory and have possibly closed off other lines of enquiry early as they might have backed themselves into a bit of a corner. It’s going to be hard to backtrack if they don’t find her in the water because it means they will have to admit to not being so persistent and comprehensive with searching elsewhere and following other lines of investigation. Which they only seemed to do a week later.

oakleaffy · 09/02/2023 17:07

shockthemonkey · 09/02/2023 16:45

@Lunde 💔

@Lunde So sorry to hear this.
Misplaced “Kindness” giving alcohol to vulnerable people.
Many years ago there were addicts at a certain place in London - One heard some very well spoken accents amongst them, clearly ( on the surface) had come from so called “Good “ families.
But one never knows the reasons behind someone being on the streets incognito, often under an assumed name.

schloss · 09/02/2023 17:09

@Tamarindtree You describe the situation perfectly, I can almost guarantee if there are 10 people witnessing an event, there will be 10 different descriptions of what happened.

MeinKraft · 09/02/2023 17:11

Anyone saying 'if you were going to kill yourself you would...' needs to realise the mind is not always in a logical state at the time of choosing to end your life. Not every suicide is premeditated. The point of despair can be very sudden. You can send a text to a friend ten minutes before you reach that point of despair. You will use whatever method is at hand at that moment. That's why paracetamol sales are restricted to 2 packs in supermarkets - it's prevented many suicides by forcing people to wait and have a think (I don't know true stats off hand but I know they do reflect this)

I don't know if Nicola killed herself, I don't even know if she's in the water, no one does. All I'm saying is it's a fair possibility.

Goldpaw · 09/02/2023 17:11

Diverging · 09/02/2023 17:06

What is the point of this thread if only a few are allowed to comment, other than to agree with the police statements on day one?

Lot’s of us are commenting and absolutely questioning the police’s (apparent) approach. Not agreeing with the police at all.

They have provided no plausible evidence for their theory and have possibly closed off other lines of enquiry early as they might have backed themselves into a bit of a corner. It’s going to be hard to backtrack if they don’t find her in the water because it means they will have to admit to not being so persistent and comprehensive with searching elsewhere and following other lines of investigation. Which they only seemed to do a week later.

They'll eventually say they think she's been washed out to sea and wind down the investigation.

User45378754 · 09/02/2023 17:12

SueG60 · 09/02/2023 16:43

I'm all for people discussing what happened with regards to this shocking and important incident, but some of the comments are stupid and show a lack of intelligence.

People have explained loads of times but it doesn't seem to go in for some people. You can't realistically live off grid with no help, no access to finances and when your face has been on BBC News for 3 weeks as well. If thats her plan, she'll be seen at some point out and about. People need to eat, can't get away from simple facts like that.

If she was going to kill herself, thats just not how you'd do it at all - if you choose drowning as the method you go for the sea, not a shallow river. If the police have spoken to her family and friends, checked her social media and texts, scrolled through her bank statements, spoke to her work colleagues about whats been going on there. There would 100% be a sign of something if suicide or self disappearance were what had happened.

Its just obviously not what happened.

There would 100% be a sign of something if suicide or self disappearance were what had happened.

Maybe there is an the police are not releasing that info.

Its just obviously not what happened.

No one at this stage can make such a definitive claim - especially when you don’t have any background info.

Quveas · 09/02/2023 17:14

schloss · 09/02/2023 17:09

@Tamarindtree You describe the situation perfectly, I can almost guarantee if there are 10 people witnessing an event, there will be 10 different descriptions of what happened.

Many years ago I was witness to a ram raid armed robbery of a jewellers shop. The three men had guns. I could recall the guns, the fact there were three men, and NOTHING else at all. I still can't. I had never seen guns anywhere except TV at that time, and my mind simply shut down everything except "hide".

Bluekerfuffle · 09/02/2023 17:14

liveforsummer · 09/02/2023 16:40

The police saying at the beginning they believed there was no third party involvement would be consistent with if they'd been informed by the partner or family member of some recent fragility, upset, row, crisis, threat to harm herself or mental struggle.

Early reports I'd read stated she'd spent the night with the kids at her parents house which could suggest one of these scenarios

That’s not what her parents seemed to say when they gave an account of when they last saw her.

Plitvice · 09/02/2023 17:15

They were looking after the kids at her house according to what her father said. They had the grandchildren every Thursday night as routine.

Plitvice · 09/02/2023 17:16

Or looked after them on Thursday evenings, not sure beyond that.

Peverellshire · 09/02/2023 17:16

SueG60 · 09/02/2023 16:48

Thats fair enough though if they have that info and it points to it. As I said, if that is what happened the evidence should be very easy to find and they'll have it already.

However, they haven't even mentioned that as a possibility which suggests they think accident. If you had proof it wasn't an accident they wouldn't say that.

Obviously it would be highly sensitive. SR did say somewhere that she had to be cautious around the ‘timing’ of the dissemination of sensitive info has anyone come across that?

Quveas · 09/02/2023 17:18

@SueG60 People have explained loads of times but it doesn't seem to go in for some people. You can't realistically live off grid with no help, no access to finances and when your face has been on BBC News for 3 weeks as well. If thats her plan, she'll be seen at some point out and about. People need to eat, can't get away from simple facts like that.

Please stop telling people they are thick because they don't agree with you. For the umpteenth time, it is bloody easy to live off the grid for years if you are motivated to do so. Just because you might not have the capability to do it doesn't mean others can't. I am not suggesting that is what happened, but it is your own intelligence that is lacking, not that of others, if you don't think it can be done. It absolutely can. And a good number of people do it every single day.

lemmein · 09/02/2023 17:19

What her dad said about the last time he seen Nicola:

"Her mind was great, we picked the children up the Thursday before she went missing, as we do every Thursday.

We took them home, Nicola had had a meeting with her boss in Garstang and she said can you stay a bit later because I have an important client coming in on Zoom. We said no problem and stayed. She had done her work and she was very upbeat about getting her mortgage sorted.
"I said we better go now and Nicola came to the front door, and I gave her a kiss and told her I loved her and that was the last conversation I had with her."

schloss · 09/02/2023 17:22

@Quveas The mind and body can almost protect itself by ensuring the self preservation become the most important and everything else becomes of no importance.

Purely from the examples other posters have given on here it shows how difficult the job for any police can be with information received from witnesses.

The disposition of people also has a huge part of how witnesses behave, there are some who, like you, who cannot remember anything and say that. There are others who want to be helpful and think they remember information, we may not be correct. On top of that, add in the situation of maybe a professional body saying "you are our only witness, we really need you to remember" can cause so many problems with incorrect details being passed on.

TimeForMeToF1y · 09/02/2023 17:24

liveforsummer · 09/02/2023 16:40

The police saying at the beginning they believed there was no third party involvement would be consistent with if they'd been informed by the partner or family member of some recent fragility, upset, row, crisis, threat to harm herself or mental struggle.

Early reports I'd read stated she'd spent the night with the kids at her parents house which could suggest one of these scenarios

They said the parents had been at her house looking after the children which was apparently a regular thing

Peverellshire · 09/02/2023 17:26

lemmein · 09/02/2023 16:56

I don't believe NB has walked away. You'd have to have a heart of stone to walk away and not be affected seeing your family so devastated on tv. Wanting to disappear in the moment I can understand, but staying away through all this, knowing your 2 young DDs would be devastated? Nope, don't believe it.

I don't believe she's taken her own life either - drowning is a difficult way to kill yourself, especially when you're a strong swimmer. The body's instinct to breathe will always be stronger than suicidal intent. If you were going to kill yourself in water you'd choose a place where you'd instantly be in trouble - not a relatively slow moving, shallow river.

If she's in the water I would guess she's fallen in, or was put there.

Of all the theories, the third party involvement seems most likely to me - but that might just be because the world seems so shitty right now and we constantly hear stories about VAWG, it seems the most believable, unfortunately.

Have police combed the area? Normally in these sort of cases you see the police lined up, painstakingly searching every inch of the surrounding area, has that happened? I would guess (hope!) it has - I haven't seen it, but then Nicola had already been missing 2-3 days before I heard the story so it may have been done before the media got there?

I can't imagine being her family right now, the fact that they might never know what happened is the most tragic of all.

@lemmein good post,

I noted SR talking about ‘struggling in the waves, in the torrent, in the strong current’ or similar, will look for it, but I recall as felt a bit incongruous.

Bluekerfuffle · 09/02/2023 17:28

FantasticButtocks · 09/02/2023 15:39

suspect that the police have private, sensitive, personal information which it is not appropriate to share with the public as it is confidential - which they may have had from the start and/or has been built on as they have looked into her personal life over the last two weeks.

Yes, I agree that's likely.

Her partner immediately calling the police on hearing about the dog and the phone being found, suggests that he, for whatever reason, immediately thought the worst.

The police saying at the beginning they believed there was no third party involvement would be consistent with if they'd been informed by the partner or family member of some recent fragility, upset, row, crisis, threat to harm herself or mental struggle.

If a person intended to take their own life, but didn't want their children to ever know they'd done that, they might try to make it look like they'd accidentally fallen in the river. And perhaps go elsewhere and use a completely different method to actually take their life.

Leaving phone logged into silent call, sending messages just before, leaving dog, harness and phone near river, could all be ways to point everyone in the direction of an accidental event.

It may be that the family members, friends and partner all have differing opinions about her state of mind, they may not be in agreement.
Some of them might be closer to her than others.

I think her partner most likely tried her phone as soon as the school had contacted him and when he got no answer, after hearing that her dog and phone had been seen without her, phoned the police. That would be the normal thing to do for anyone. I think the reason the police thought there was no third party was for the reason they gave - that it was unlikely in the time frame between her last being seen and her phone being found, and no one else having been seen around apart from those accounted for.

Butterflytown · 09/02/2023 17:30

The initial reports were that her parents collected the children from school the day before, and took them back to Nicola’s house to look after them, as was usual. They said they stayed later than usual because she had a zoom work meeting so asked them to watch the children whilst she did that. No suggestion that her parents stayed over at Nicola’s or that her or the children didn’t stay at their own home the night before.

DorritLittle · 09/02/2023 17:31

Interesting about witness statements. I possibly witnessed a burglar waiting outside my house last week. I have conjured up in my mind what they may have looked like but in reality I am not sure at all, or what time it was or whether it was a man or woman. If the police were interested enough to ask me about it, I might well give misleading info to try to be helpful.

lemmein · 09/02/2023 17:31

The disposition of people also has a huge part of how witnesses behave, there are some who, like you, who cannot remember anything and say that. There are others who want to be helpful and think they remember information, we may not be correct. On top of that, add in the situation of maybe a professional body saying "you are our only witness, we really need you to remember" can cause so many problems with incorrect details being passed on.

I agree with this. I witnessed a really brutal murder when I was 16. I can still see it in my mind, but some parts in the 'sequence' I couldn't have possibly seen, which makes me question the whole memory to the point that I'm not even sure it happened how I remember anymore. I mean, it happened, I definitely witnessed it, but the smaller details I can't be sure about. Did I see them, or have a read some parts and somehow added them to my sequence of events? I'm not sure.

Brains are weird things.

Butterflytown · 09/02/2023 17:33

liveforsummer · 09/02/2023 16:40

The police saying at the beginning they believed there was no third party involvement would be consistent with if they'd been informed by the partner or family member of some recent fragility, upset, row, crisis, threat to harm herself or mental struggle.

Early reports I'd read stated she'd spent the night with the kids at her parents house which could suggest one of these scenarios

sorry, my post above was responding to this.

Sugarfree23 · 09/02/2023 17:36

JimHensonWasAGenius · 09/02/2023 16:45

If they do ever find her in the water is there a way of proving whether it was an accident or suicide?

That would make a huge difference to the family never knowing and terrible to contemplate.

I'd doubt they'd be able to tell unless she'd done something like weighted herself down but that's highly unlikely given the timescale

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