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Missing Woman Nicola Bulley 5

1000 replies

ofwarren · 08/02/2023 20:38

A new thread about the disappearance of Nicola Bulley in St Michael's on Wyre, Lancashire.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
liveforsummer · 09/02/2023 16:40

The police saying at the beginning they believed there was no third party involvement would be consistent with if they'd been informed by the partner or family member of some recent fragility, upset, row, crisis, threat to harm herself or mental struggle.

Early reports I'd read stated she'd spent the night with the kids at her parents house which could suggest one of these scenarios

LeapingCat · 09/02/2023 16:41

liveforsummer · 09/02/2023 16:40

The police saying at the beginning they believed there was no third party involvement would be consistent with if they'd been informed by the partner or family member of some recent fragility, upset, row, crisis, threat to harm herself or mental struggle.

Early reports I'd read stated she'd spent the night with the kids at her parents house which could suggest one of these scenarios

There’s CCTV of her leaving her own house in the morning. Stop repeating made up internet speculation.

Celinia · 09/02/2023 16:41

MeinKraft · 09/02/2023 16:21

'About a million easier ways to kill yourself than trying to drown in shallow water (especially given she was a strong swimmer) leaving her dog outside on his own. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.'

Someone who's made a snap decision to end their lives probably isn't thinking particularly clearly at that point.

Agreed suicide via drowning in the river seems very unlikely given the descriptions of the river. If she had, they would’ve found her by now, surely?

FantasticButtocks · 09/02/2023 16:43

LadyHarmby · 09/02/2023 16:36

The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason

Or you could consider whether the police have that information and haven’t made it public.

Exactly.

liveforsummer · 09/02/2023 16:43

There’s CCTV of her leaving her own house in the morning. Stop repeating made up internet speculation.

This was in initial news reports - sky news etc which is all I had read at that point and included quoted from the grandparents saying they were looking after the dc. Not made up speculation. Will see if I can find it now

SueG60 · 09/02/2023 16:43

User45378754 · 09/02/2023 16:31

The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason.

Who are you to know this the SIO?

What a bizarre comment.

I'm all for people discussing what happened with regards to this shocking and important incident, but some of the comments are stupid and show a lack of intelligence.

People have explained loads of times but it doesn't seem to go in for some people. You can't realistically live off grid with no help, no access to finances and when your face has been on BBC News for 3 weeks as well. If thats her plan, she'll be seen at some point out and about. People need to eat, can't get away from simple facts like that.

If she was going to kill herself, thats just not how you'd do it at all - if you choose drowning as the method you go for the sea, not a shallow river. If the police have spoken to her family and friends, checked her social media and texts, scrolled through her bank statements, spoke to her work colleagues about whats been going on there. There would 100% be a sign of something if suicide or self disappearance were what had happened.

Its just obviously not what happened.

Peverellshire · 09/02/2023 16:44

confounded234 · 09/02/2023 15:05

Thanks, this matches what i've been thinking but you've managed to articulate it much better than I could.

@schloss this is a completely brilliant post, my work is similar. I find when there is serious financial crime, 'money' means that the very best and the brightest descend, egos and pride go in everyone's pocket and people pull tougher for a successful outcome. Everyone is a respected specialist in own field and everyone is carefully focused. Teamwork at its finest. When a woman goes missing do we see the same response?

There is a centralised website re: police where the timeline, for clarity etc, placed, it may be me, but as a details driven person, I like to build a mental picture and I can't help feeling slightly gaslit as certain things appear to drop out of the narrative, is this because they were misreported or incorrect or inappropriate for us to know? I realise we can't be party to everything and some things do become sensitive but when things shit and change I can't help feeling gaslit.

Who was and who wasn't there the morning? Where is the man, is he cleared, what part did he play? An early article said he suggested Nicola had a 'medical episode' and 'fishing bait' probably lured her dog to the river's edge. One example. Another, the phone was on the ground, says SR very clearly and corrects herself later around this only to say, very clearly, always on the bench. The devil is in the detail in my work so I am wired that way. Was this the invention of a poor journalist? Did I dream it? I begin to wonder.

The we have the women in the many coloured coats who have also gone stage left....Etc, all 'cleared'? They seem to have random focus on Nicola's clothing but no replicas or a reason to push ahead of other things, are they looking for it to wash up in the river in this spot?

SR Press Conference

We can say with confidence that we believe Nicola remained in the riverside area. I understand the this is frustrating for those observing the investigation when the river has been searched and Nicola has not been found. This does not mean, however, that Nicola was not in the river at some point due to the tidal flow for he river. For this reason, our search of the river and the river banks extends out to the sea, particularly the area from Knott end out towards Morecombe.

PF on Jeremy Vine

I have just come from the bench area and below the bank where Nicola would have fallen in it's about a foot deep on to rocks, so if she had fallen in even if a foot higher, she would have fallen on rocks and would have been able to hold on. It is deeper in the middle but you have to remember on day one where Nicola's phone was found, the police thoroughly searched that area that day and nothing was found. People don't tend to move very far from where they fall into the water. They go to the bottom, you sink you don't float and you tend to stay there . Even in a reasonably strong current you don't go very far you drag along the bottom and you have to go right around the corner [where she apparently fell in]. If she got to the weir she has to get over and under its all shallow and just a pile of rocks. The key thing is this area where she fell, if the fact the divers were there so fast, she can't ever have been there.

He says he wouldn't call it a Missing Persons enquiry and wouldn't only focus on the river. If she had have gone in the river that day she would not have gone at all. Talks of a decoy, and a shoe being planted by a murderer. I think he changes tune a little later, possibly as has gleaned some of the information not in the public domain?

An intelligent surmise would therefore be would it not, she was NEVER in this part of the river. Can anyone unpack what SR is saying? Surely the only hypothesis that works is indeed they think/know (police) that she entered the river elsewhere?

As this area was searched x4 times in total, says PR including thoroughly twice by police divers on the very day she went missing where the expert says she wouldn't have moved AND then we have to take the rocks and shallow parts and bend into account, and his estimate is people don't move far at all even in strong current. Sonar radar was then used which turned up nothing.

Assuming that in a veritable millpond with an apparent expert with all sorts of high tech equipment and sonar radar, with no logical way for the body to move very far: Rocks, very shallow in front, a foot deep, searching a few times. Then we have police divers on the scene immediately, which is encouraging for Peter yet baffling, they too searched a few times and zip.

SO, we have a ton of evidence to say that she wasn't in there, don't we? AND although I am impressed with SR, and I don't want to knock the police, a cynic might say they didn't really want SR on board as they knew she wasn't there? Now there may be good reason as they are working elsewhere on something that is sensitive but is it not insulting our intelligence and wasting people's time . Many of us are able to critically think, pretty well. Am I missing anything ?

Should it really be For this reason, our search of the river and the river banks extends out to the sea, particularly the area We know she really entered in another place, so we will now be looking from Knott end out towards Morecombe.

As you suggest @schloss possibly the authentic way to navigate difficult situations like this one is to give a very brief, clear update and say more will be said in time? That way you are not put on the spot or asked questions where you really can't give an honest answer and THEN everyone beings to see through it and thinks you/the force are incompetent at best. Thing is it's not your fault but it's pretty inevitable when lots (?) has to be with held. Why not say exactly that and nothing more if so? Is brevity allowed?

JimHensonWasAGenius · 09/02/2023 16:45

If they do ever find her in the water is there a way of proving whether it was an accident or suicide?

That would make a huge difference to the family never knowing and terrible to contemplate.

RoseAndRose · 09/02/2023 16:45

Celinia · 09/02/2023 16:41

Agreed suicide via drowning in the river seems very unlikely given the descriptions of the river. If she had, they would’ve found her by now, surely?

Perhaps not, if she'd left the dog where she believed she would be safe and found, and walked to the other side of the weir.

Has there been an official statement about the direction from which the person came who found and tied up the dog? Would she have passed Nicola if N was walking down to the other side of the weir?

User45378754 · 09/02/2023 16:45

MeinKraft · 09/02/2023 16:37

'The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason.'

It's not clear at all, in fact it's by far the more likely scenario. The police have been through her phone, her social media, conducted interviews with her family friends to get a picture of her state of mind. They think she entered the water. They have all the available information and we do not.

Agreed.

And they will not use any such terminology until they have done a coroner’s report.

So neutral / vague / non committal language is used.

shockthemonkey · 09/02/2023 16:45

Lunde · 09/02/2023 16:33

Such a horrific case - I'm really sad for what the family having to go through this.

It brings up memories as my brother disappeared in the early 1980s. He just vanished one day despite his (ostensibly) "normal" life as a middle class, privately educated, specialist accountant. He had had some issues with depression but being the height of the Thatcher government's cutbacks he had waited over a year for a MH appointment having been referred "urgently" by the GP. Police interest was rather tepid - they had a quick walk through the immediate family's houses and turned up periodically with details of bodies found in the Thames. The Police attitude seemed to be certain that he had committed suicide. My parents hired private investigator but nothing was found.

16 years later he was found but had died the night before. He had lived under the radar for 16 years in Central London and was found dead in a park in Mayfair where he was a "regular". Sadly he was killed by someone who likely thought they were "being kind" to the homeless guy by giving him a corporate hospitality bottle of whiskey just before Christmas - but it caused his death through acute alcohol poisoning.

It is clear that my brother just walked out of his life and managed to stay hidden for all of those years although this was likely easier before the social media era. He clearly had his own MH issues and with the benefit of hindsight he also had ASD/ADHD - but these were not diagnosed back in the 1980s. However the issue that we are left is as a family, which will never be answered, is why he chose to disappear and why he chose to live on the streets rather than ask for help.

@Lunde 💔

shockthemonkey · 09/02/2023 16:46

I very, very nearly lost my brother the same way.

He is now on the road back to us. My heart breaks for you, Lunde.

SueG60 · 09/02/2023 16:48

MeinKraft · 09/02/2023 16:37

'The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason.'

It's not clear at all, in fact it's by far the more likely scenario. The police have been through her phone, her social media, conducted interviews with her family friends to get a picture of her state of mind. They think she entered the water. They have all the available information and we do not.

Thats fair enough though if they have that info and it points to it. As I said, if that is what happened the evidence should be very easy to find and they'll have it already.

However, they haven't even mentioned that as a possibility which suggests they think accident. If you had proof it wasn't an accident they wouldn't say that.

pissssedofff · 09/02/2023 16:55

Searching the coast now, on Sky News.

lemmein · 09/02/2023 16:56

I don't believe NB has walked away. You'd have to have a heart of stone to walk away and not be affected seeing your family so devastated on tv. Wanting to disappear in the moment I can understand, but staying away through all this, knowing your 2 young DDs would be devastated? Nope, don't believe it.

I don't believe she's taken her own life either - drowning is a difficult way to kill yourself, especially when you're a strong swimmer. The body's instinct to breathe will always be stronger than suicidal intent. If you were going to kill yourself in water you'd choose a place where you'd instantly be in trouble - not a relatively slow moving, shallow river.

If she's in the water I would guess she's fallen in, or was put there.

Of all the theories, the third party involvement seems most likely to me - but that might just be because the world seems so shitty right now and we constantly hear stories about VAWG, it seems the most believable, unfortunately.

Have police combed the area? Normally in these sort of cases you see the police lined up, painstakingly searching every inch of the surrounding area, has that happened? I would guess (hope!) it has - I haven't seen it, but then Nicola had already been missing 2-3 days before I heard the story so it may have been done before the media got there?

I can't imagine being her family right now, the fact that they might never know what happened is the most tragic of all.

Daisymaker · 09/02/2023 16:57

How do you tell two little girls that someone can just disappear, they must be terrified?

Daisymaker · 09/02/2023 16:57

Unfortunately I still believe she went into the water

confounded234 · 09/02/2023 16:57

Peverellshire · 09/02/2023 16:44

@schloss this is a completely brilliant post, my work is similar. I find when there is serious financial crime, 'money' means that the very best and the brightest descend, egos and pride go in everyone's pocket and people pull tougher for a successful outcome. Everyone is a respected specialist in own field and everyone is carefully focused. Teamwork at its finest. When a woman goes missing do we see the same response?

There is a centralised website re: police where the timeline, for clarity etc, placed, it may be me, but as a details driven person, I like to build a mental picture and I can't help feeling slightly gaslit as certain things appear to drop out of the narrative, is this because they were misreported or incorrect or inappropriate for us to know? I realise we can't be party to everything and some things do become sensitive but when things shit and change I can't help feeling gaslit.

Who was and who wasn't there the morning? Where is the man, is he cleared, what part did he play? An early article said he suggested Nicola had a 'medical episode' and 'fishing bait' probably lured her dog to the river's edge. One example. Another, the phone was on the ground, says SR very clearly and corrects herself later around this only to say, very clearly, always on the bench. The devil is in the detail in my work so I am wired that way. Was this the invention of a poor journalist? Did I dream it? I begin to wonder.

The we have the women in the many coloured coats who have also gone stage left....Etc, all 'cleared'? They seem to have random focus on Nicola's clothing but no replicas or a reason to push ahead of other things, are they looking for it to wash up in the river in this spot?

SR Press Conference

We can say with confidence that we believe Nicola remained in the riverside area. I understand the this is frustrating for those observing the investigation when the river has been searched and Nicola has not been found. This does not mean, however, that Nicola was not in the river at some point due to the tidal flow for he river. For this reason, our search of the river and the river banks extends out to the sea, particularly the area from Knott end out towards Morecombe.

PF on Jeremy Vine

I have just come from the bench area and below the bank where Nicola would have fallen in it's about a foot deep on to rocks, so if she had fallen in even if a foot higher, she would have fallen on rocks and would have been able to hold on. It is deeper in the middle but you have to remember on day one where Nicola's phone was found, the police thoroughly searched that area that day and nothing was found. People don't tend to move very far from where they fall into the water. They go to the bottom, you sink you don't float and you tend to stay there . Even in a reasonably strong current you don't go very far you drag along the bottom and you have to go right around the corner [where she apparently fell in]. If she got to the weir she has to get over and under its all shallow and just a pile of rocks. The key thing is this area where she fell, if the fact the divers were there so fast, she can't ever have been there.

He says he wouldn't call it a Missing Persons enquiry and wouldn't only focus on the river. If she had have gone in the river that day she would not have gone at all. Talks of a decoy, and a shoe being planted by a murderer. I think he changes tune a little later, possibly as has gleaned some of the information not in the public domain?

An intelligent surmise would therefore be would it not, she was NEVER in this part of the river. Can anyone unpack what SR is saying? Surely the only hypothesis that works is indeed they think/know (police) that she entered the river elsewhere?

As this area was searched x4 times in total, says PR including thoroughly twice by police divers on the very day she went missing where the expert says she wouldn't have moved AND then we have to take the rocks and shallow parts and bend into account, and his estimate is people don't move far at all even in strong current. Sonar radar was then used which turned up nothing.

Assuming that in a veritable millpond with an apparent expert with all sorts of high tech equipment and sonar radar, with no logical way for the body to move very far: Rocks, very shallow in front, a foot deep, searching a few times. Then we have police divers on the scene immediately, which is encouraging for Peter yet baffling, they too searched a few times and zip.

SO, we have a ton of evidence to say that she wasn't in there, don't we? AND although I am impressed with SR, and I don't want to knock the police, a cynic might say they didn't really want SR on board as they knew she wasn't there? Now there may be good reason as they are working elsewhere on something that is sensitive but is it not insulting our intelligence and wasting people's time . Many of us are able to critically think, pretty well. Am I missing anything ?

Should it really be For this reason, our search of the river and the river banks extends out to the sea, particularly the area We know she really entered in another place, so we will now be looking from Knott end out towards Morecombe.

As you suggest @schloss possibly the authentic way to navigate difficult situations like this one is to give a very brief, clear update and say more will be said in time? That way you are not put on the spot or asked questions where you really can't give an honest answer and THEN everyone beings to see through it and thinks you/the force are incompetent at best. Thing is it's not your fault but it's pretty inevitable when lots (?) has to be with held. Why not say exactly that and nothing more if so? Is brevity allowed?

"We can say with confidence that we believe Nicola remained in the riverside area. I understand the this is frustrating for those observing the investigation when the river has been searched and Nicola has not been found. This does not mean, however, that Nicola was not in the river at some point due to the tidal flow for he river. For this reason, our search of the river and the river banks extends out to the sea, particularly the area from Knott end out towards Morecombe."

My reading of this is that they have no evidence to say that Nicola moved away from the river ergo she is in the riverside area. However, they have admitted elsewhere that CCTV is far from complete and it's possible that she made her way from the river area, either alone or accompanied. It is a bit of circular argument really

PF seems to suggest that it's almost impossible for a body to across the weir ergo the body should be in the river upstream of the weir. Except it isn't. Police divers have found nothing and he has found nothing.

It follows from this that if Nicola has ended up below the weir, then it would seem most likely she entered the river below the weir. Which leaves the problem of the phone location.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/02/2023 16:59

People have explained loads of times but it doesn't seem to go in for some people. You can't realistically live off grid with no help, no access to finances and when your face has been on BBC News for 3 weeks as well. If thats her plan, she'll be seen at some point out and about. People need to eat, can't get away from simple facts like that.**

So you keep saying, but people can and do disappear without a trace. If she did this she may well not be acting alone or could have a supply built up. She's not so distinctive looking as to be instantly recognisable unless you had reason to suspect she was in your area.

It's as least as likely as a stranger abduction of which there is no evidence.

But less likely than she committed suicide which you appear to have the intelligence to rule out when the police don't appear to have.

Daisymaker · 09/02/2023 17:00

Lunde · 09/02/2023 16:33

Such a horrific case - I'm really sad for what the family having to go through this.

It brings up memories as my brother disappeared in the early 1980s. He just vanished one day despite his (ostensibly) "normal" life as a middle class, privately educated, specialist accountant. He had had some issues with depression but being the height of the Thatcher government's cutbacks he had waited over a year for a MH appointment having been referred "urgently" by the GP. Police interest was rather tepid - they had a quick walk through the immediate family's houses and turned up periodically with details of bodies found in the Thames. The Police attitude seemed to be certain that he had committed suicide. My parents hired private investigator but nothing was found.

16 years later he was found but had died the night before. He had lived under the radar for 16 years in Central London and was found dead in a park in Mayfair where he was a "regular". Sadly he was killed by someone who likely thought they were "being kind" to the homeless guy by giving him a corporate hospitality bottle of whiskey just before Christmas - but it caused his death through acute alcohol poisoning.

It is clear that my brother just walked out of his life and managed to stay hidden for all of those years although this was likely easier before the social media era. He clearly had his own MH issues and with the benefit of hindsight he also had ASD/ADHD - but these were not diagnosed back in the 1980s. However the issue that we are left is as a family, which will never be answered, is why he chose to disappear and why he chose to live on the streets rather than ask for help.

I am so sorry, that is tragic

Plitvice · 09/02/2023 17:02

@lifeturnsonadime I think she would count as too distinctive looking to pull it off. She has a really lovely, unique face which has been plastered all over the media for two weeks.

lemmein · 09/02/2023 17:03

liveforsummer · 09/02/2023 16:40

The police saying at the beginning they believed there was no third party involvement would be consistent with if they'd been informed by the partner or family member of some recent fragility, upset, row, crisis, threat to harm herself or mental struggle.

Early reports I'd read stated she'd spent the night with the kids at her parents house which could suggest one of these scenarios

I think this came from a misinterpretation of what her dad said. People assumed her parents were looking after the children at their home, but I'm pretty sure that's incorrect, and they were with the kids at NB's home when she asked them to stay a bit longer as she had an (online) meeting with a client.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/02/2023 17:03

Lunde · 09/02/2023 16:33

Such a horrific case - I'm really sad for what the family having to go through this.

It brings up memories as my brother disappeared in the early 1980s. He just vanished one day despite his (ostensibly) "normal" life as a middle class, privately educated, specialist accountant. He had had some issues with depression but being the height of the Thatcher government's cutbacks he had waited over a year for a MH appointment having been referred "urgently" by the GP. Police interest was rather tepid - they had a quick walk through the immediate family's houses and turned up periodically with details of bodies found in the Thames. The Police attitude seemed to be certain that he had committed suicide. My parents hired private investigator but nothing was found.

16 years later he was found but had died the night before. He had lived under the radar for 16 years in Central London and was found dead in a park in Mayfair where he was a "regular". Sadly he was killed by someone who likely thought they were "being kind" to the homeless guy by giving him a corporate hospitality bottle of whiskey just before Christmas - but it caused his death through acute alcohol poisoning.

It is clear that my brother just walked out of his life and managed to stay hidden for all of those years although this was likely easier before the social media era. He clearly had his own MH issues and with the benefit of hindsight he also had ASD/ADHD - but these were not diagnosed back in the 1980s. However the issue that we are left is as a family, which will never be answered, is why he chose to disappear and why he chose to live on the streets rather than ask for help.

So sorry for your loss Lunde the not knowing why must be terrible.

I hope your family has found some peace in at least having closure, albeit with terribly sad consequences.

SoNoWrecksToday · 09/02/2023 17:04

its unfortunate that this awful situation has come about at a time when confidence in the polices ability, and belief in their integrity, is at an all time low. Intense public scrutiny has escalated accordingly.

schloss · 09/02/2023 17:04

Thank you to all those who have thanked me for my earlier post!

There are times when being dogmatic is an opinion and seeing it through is the best course of action, of course the opposite is also true when being dogmatic can hinder a situation.

As I previously said, easy for me to say I know, but Lancs police may have helped themselves and the situation if earlier on they had provided some justification as to why they believe this is a drowning. Sadly for the family, the media and the general public who are all interested in the tragic story, the lack of that information leads to many making one of 2 conclusions - the police are witholding information, or they are summising on what happened and have no evidence to back it up.

It may be, as a I said earlier, the police trying to retain control of the situation, it may also be them covering their backsides having gone down a route to which for whatever reason they are not happy to deviate from.

I said earlier how witnesses are not always correct in what they saw for various reasons. There is also the issue with how they are questioned, I mentioned earlier about someone saying to a witness who said the phone was on the bench "it was not on the ground?", rather than saying "you can certainly say it was on the bench", a positive answer is received - yes. By suggesting it could have been on the ground, can in some situation cause the witness to question themselves. If someone believes in a particular narrative, the witness may have been asked questions such as "you didn't happen to see anyone enter the water?" or "we know the water entry was by the bench" .

What this does is put a narrative into the witnesses head and their focus becomes on that rather than remembering maybe important other information. So the witness replies "no I didn't hear a splash etc" and omits to tell the officer, they had seen someone in the car park for a couple of days running watching women taking their children to school, dogs walked etc, it is human nature to want to be helpful, so the brain ascertains the important information is water, splash etc and dismisses other information.

I am not saying this is what is happening rather these are known behaviour patterns of witnesses and those asking for information.

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