Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

@catinboots123 because you are not allowed an honest point of view on MN. Fwiw I completely agree

There has been a lot of incisive and useful comments on this thread, hope it doesn't get taken down because of some posters. Mumsnet are thankfully just deleting those posts so far

The problem with holies claims of overseas help was she gave her version of archies state not the true medical facts so they could possibly think they were right to offer help

this also could be happening with the hospice her saying hes ok can we have a bed and somewhere has said yes without looking into the practicalities of it-would a genuine hospice be able to facitilate all that needs to happen to move him-i doubt it

I honestly can't believe that no one in the news organisations that are giving her air time has had a heads up/inkling of the actual situation, which is very clear from the most cursory reading of the Court reports. Even the local rags are almost always part of bigger groups and they have legal teams, for a start. This makes me think that they simply don't care about integrity or accuracy, let alone turning a very fragile person into a sideshow.

EYP I have speculated on NOTHING.

I have given Ms Dance my full sympathy throughout this (evidenced easily if you read my posts).

But I am against people who try and silence a thread and get it shut down because they don't like the FACTS people are quoting.

It is FACT that the only person who knows why Archie put the ligature his head is Archie. It is FACT that's what's lead to this consequence of him being in a coma and brain dead.

FACT.

Read the court documents.

FACT.

it is not disgusting to report fact. It is indeed disgusting to try and stop people doing so.

Right now we have a clearly debased mum who cannot manage the emotional acceptance that her believe son cannot and will not wake up. That his brain has died.

You have the media encouraging her to make wild statements publicly that will forever be on record (that she may regret saying but can never delete).

We have a evangelical Christian group who responded to her call for a QC supporting her and it's known they have alterior motives as they have an agenda clearly published by them in the public domain. They are using a barrister who is known to be at risk of being disbarred due to his behaviour. (again - all information publicly available).

We have a group of internet people who have no medical knowledge and haven't even met the family encouraging her to fight and never give up. We don't know but can use common knowledge to assume that then makes it harder for her to say enough is enough.

If you don't like this thread it's best you don't read it.

Many of us are feeling very distressed by this and poor Ms Dances emotional state and would like to discuss the legal, ethical and future implications of this case factually without being accused of things we aren't doing.

Surely It would be impossible to do that though?

However expressed, it is a fair point.

In both cases, two desperately ill children where the suggestion to move them, to put them through the high risk and physical stress of the transfer, was to meet the emotional needs of the parents. It involves taking the child away from the familiar environment, familiar voices, familiar routines, to a strange place. It is easy to see the benefit to the parent when all relations have broken down, but it is also fair to consider really, what is the benefit of this to the child? These cases are all about balancing the best interests of the child with that of the parents and they are not always the same. These are very hard conversations but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be had - which in effect means tacitly allowing and so supporting the suppression of the child's interests in order not to emotionally distress the parents.

It wouldn’t work, his body is too ready to give up and effective bagging is a learned skill.

But - if there is supposed acceptance that the tube will be removed and his heart will stop, why need the oxygen?

Well no one is going to give her an ambubag - not that it would do much anyway. She's just saying stuff that comes into her head, she doesnt really understand what she's saying when she talks about giving him oxygen etc..

Lastly I am exasperated by this case we transfer out children to PICU on a regular basis and most times there are no beds in our region and sometimes no beds in the UK children are being held in adult ITU's which is totally inappropriate whilst a bed is found somewhere, we are based n the south and our children do go as far as Glasgow, parents look stunned when we say the you child is being airlifted to Glasgow/Manchester/Liverpool PICU because it's the bed left . We also have a significant group of patients awaiting surgery who cant get it done because of a shortage of PICU beds. I'm obviously not blaming Archies family for this but I do think they have reached the end of the road with this and that someone needs to stop them delaying his tragic death any longer.

Thank you @tiredwardsister

Oxygen will not revive a corpse FFS

Couldn't agree more with this.

Everything you say is right, of course. It must be so frustrating when you see children who have a chance of survival being turned away because a parent cannot accept the reality that's been explained to them by numerous experts. Hospices are also scarce resources and it's very difficult to get a place in one and we were told that there would not be any chance of staying there if any kind of ventilation was required.

My experience of the NHS is that it's the medical teams that have the final say as to treatment pathways and it's a dangerous road to go down if people start resorting to the courts. There are too many of these cases now and it must take away from patient care if precious doctors' time is spent writing letters, appearing in court, negotiating with parents when really there is no hope of survival.

There has emerged in society an idea that people's feelings are paramount, above any sense, factual evidence or reason. It doesn't benefit society in my view or help families deal with their tragedies in the long run.

Could someone from outside the hospital give her one?

I accept I’m going down a rabbit hole here, and her demand for oxygen may just be to feel in control of the process a bit more.

i do understand your memory start playing tricks on you when stressed but her version of events arent just slightly changed its major differences

she was on the house-then she wasnt
it was 40 minutes without oxygen then it was 3-she will have to answer all these quesitons at the inquest so she cant start lying

he sounded very dsiturbed in his short life from what hs posts reveal it didnt sound like a challenege he was doing at all

Probably not long sadly...

After reading some of the posts I decided to google the mother and previous names and history. I can see why some are very anti her and her fund raising when medical costs are free and christian group funding the legal battle. I feel for the boy and what might have led him to put a ligature around his neck. It's all a total mess.

You’re not ‘distressed’. This is all just entertainment for you.

These are real people you are gossiping about. It’s their grief, not yours. It’s not about you.

I'm becoming increasingly worried that people are trying to shut down valid debate by calling facts - speculation.

I’m not saying oxygen will help, I’m just imagining Hollie frantically trying to resuscitate him at the end.

@tiredwardsister thankyou for what you do dont know where we'd be without you all

People are transferred to hospices frequently. Especially children and when they have young siblings. They can remain there for end of life care and then remain in a cold room with the family visiting for days afterwards and supported by hospice staff.

The transfer itself isn't unkind to a child.

It's the medical circumstances surrounding the child that make it unkind in certain circumstances. And I agree with the courts in this case it is.