Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

I agree.

We need to get to a point where the word grief or grieving doesn’t automatically mean you can behave as you want without consequence.

No longer I don't know but I guess you have law enforcement available if required for situations where necessary.

I actually think he is deteriorating, obviously and rapidly.

It’s been the night before various court decisions many times. It’s a miracle really, that his body held on as long as it did. I hope she’s there for it

ie: if you're online defaming the hospital staff at 7am don't expect to walk in there at 7.30 as if nothing has happened.

Exactly. You've got to have some front to say so many negative and horrific things about a place, and then walk straight in. But then, maybe that speaks to her character as a person as well.

I agree about right thinking.

I hope all available MH services support her after this and don't suddenly disappear due to funding. Obviously she can refuse to engage.

But I won't agree to "allowing" her to do it as an idea - as in a conscious decision that it's ok - even though I accept that she may act that way in her very clear depths of despair as she's been in total denial up until now.

If they aren't actively searching on SM every hour I doubt they have much awareness tbh. Why would they? I wouldn't be encouraging my kids to join a private FB group or look up the fruit farms and I can't imagine they'd be reading it for updates every two minutes unlike posters here. It's a choice to know so much - the media reports are pretty much restricted to news sites and bulletins. They don't have to be exposed to it.

When (what feels like about 1000 days ago) i said lessons needed to be learned from this fiasco, because something along the line something isn't right, this is the sort of thing i meant.

The media being allowed to air interviews with someone making outrageously defamatory remarks, about a situation happening in real time, about hospital staff because - grief, for a start.

Agree with this. I just hope someone can look after Hollie now.

Difficult to imagine how he can possibly be more "out of it".

@Eeksteek referred to wilful ignorance upthread, and that seems very apt. It's not a case of being unaware of the truth, it seems to be a case of knowing it but dismissing it because it doesn't fit the picture they want to put over.

Pickle can I ask what your limit is? How far is she allowed to go in the name of grief?

Don't get me wrong - the whole world can see this is a broken woman who has been enabled appalling by MSM and CLC to play her grief out publicly.

But what if her understandable physical reaction in grief doesn't stop at trying to resuscitate her son.

I'm wondering if she's trying to write the story in advance. If, say, he is moved - even just to a side room - and dies on the way, she can say it's because the hospital did something to him overnight, not because they were right about the dangers of moving him.

I don’t think anyone will have the appetite to pull her off him

This has become all about the families fight against the system while Archie just lies there slowly deteriorating in a way a not normally seen in a patient on ICU.

The request to move to him to a hospice is the families way of giving a last kick to the hospital. Part of me thinks since Archie is so long gone and can't feel any distress that they should just let them do it. They have been told it is highly unlikely he would survive the transfer and they won't listen. But then the rationale part of me kicks in knowing that allowing the move would not be right, for anyone involved, most of all the medics who would have to facilitate it and then be blamed for killing him him when it all goes wrong, which it very likely would. Previously the parents refused scans due to moving him being too dangerous. Now they are asking to take him away from the hospital completely. That just screams to me that this has always been about what they want and not what is best for Archie.

Where does the father stand in all this? Does he agree with Hollie? Does he just not want to be in the media?

It's hard to sympathise much with the family anymore. Truly awful to lose a child but what Hollie and her family have been doing is so far beyond normal. As if Archie would have wanted those kind of images online for all to see, how could she do that to him? The accusations that have been thrown around at the doctors, NHS, government etc when everything humanly possible has been done is a disgrace. Their behaviour at this stage is inexcusable.

I expect the poor child is physically altered now. His tongue may be making his face look different, and Ida sad her memories will not be of his face as it was. He was a lovely looking lad,

Where does the father stand in all this? Does he agree with Hollie? Does he just not want to be in the media?

He must be agreeing with her, because the lawyers are on the record as acting for both of them, and he gave evidence in court on her side. Though you get the feeling that he is primarily being swept along with her.

She's absolutely unhinged, it's an appalling traumatic situation but 99.9% of grieving parents don't behave like this. She has crossed the line many times now and the hospital are clearly walking on eggshells. If she keeps this up she should be banned from the hospital.

Poor Archie and the poor staff looking after him.

They’re twelve not three. If my class mate was on the front page of every newspaper I’d definitely have been aware of it. They’ll know their class mate is dead. Or may think he’s not dead. Or that he will somehow come back to life depending on the rumour mill in their social circle. Or they may have heard all three - via social media or not.

To think they’re blissfully unaware of this shows a complete incomprehension of the world awareness a pre teen has.

We can't just be ok about however a grieving person behaves. There is still morally awful behaviour whatever the circumstances.

I think it's got to the point where having some sort of "win" over the hospital is more important than the horrific situation her child is in.

exactly. the harm to the staff has to be considered.

When I was in a similar situation the hospital staff could not have been more caring and compassionate. At one point they took me aside and told me to go home and eat and sleep as they were worried about my welfare and didn't want me to be hospitalised with exhaustion. They were gentle and kind but made it clear that they would not allow me into ICU unless I started to look after myself better as all their focus needed to be on their patient. They were right. The staff I met in ICU, consultants, nurses, other staff were incredibly professional yet unbelievably compassionate. They are dealing with serious illness, death and bereaved loved ones every day.

I find it very difficult reading the things that Hollie Dance is saying about them. Even though the outcome wasn't positive for me I could never thank them enough for what they did.

I think the only reason they want the hospice is to refuse to turn off the life support again and they are just hoping that the hospice doesn’t fight them.

They are completely ignoring the fact that he probably won’t survive the journey.

Imagine if you poor lad did miraculously wake up (I know he won’t) and saw that pictures of him wearing a nappy etc were all over the internet? 😔 if he could see what was going on now the poor kid would be mortified

I think there’s a degree of cognitive dissonance at play.

She thinks she wants to “win” and have Archie’s heart stop whilst still being ventilated because the hospital wants a controlled withdrawal.

However, she doesn’t want his heart to stop, has been delusional for 4 months about his true status and if he is deteriorating she will be alarmed and desperate, not relieved that she will get what she said she wanted.

There has been 4/12 of deliberately NOT coming to terms with how she found him, how he is not going to recover. There’s been a lot projection of life onto a lifeless body - “breathing”, “looking”, squeezing hands, responding to her etc.

The moment of reckoning is going to be awful, and I agree with a pp that crying, raging, screaming and wailing would be an expected response from her.

Let’s hope that she doesn’t externalise her rage to extend to the staff though.