Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

I don't believe this. Dance posted on social media that the doctors were lying in court and she has "solid proof" doctors are lying.

Yeah right.

I suspect that interviewers are holding back also because he know Ms Dance will simply walk out if they challenge her

they know, not he know.

@Eeksteek I was just about to post exactly the same thoughts. If Archie is so haemodynamically unstable that even turning him is risky, then as soon as they turn off inotropic support, his B/P is going to crash and cardiac arrest is likely to follow very quickly, before they can extubate.

I expect they would have no choice ,if Hollie was to become aggressive they can't put their staff at risk and other very vulnerable patients ,.

Way back at the beginning of this grotesque farce Dance refused to allow Archie to be moved in the hospital for a scan; now apparently he can be safely carted several miles in an ambulance.

And yet the child in the study linked to on the previous thread was also brain dead but was kept on life support for 20 years and was even moved from the hospital to his home and back again several times in that period.

To say hes had no care is frainky insulting there permanently there giving him meds and checking monitors how can she say that-i know shes hurt and angry but ut keeps getting repeated like somehow we'll all agre and start slagging off the staff

anyway im surprised the decision is taking so long considering all the other appeals were done within a couple of houes

Is he on inotropes?

I'm afraid that now on social media is Hollie Dances previous name and about the things she is well known for where she lives, it doesn't make for easy reading. This should make no difference to what she is going through but once this is over I think it will come out in the tabloids.

I foolishly looked at some of the facebook page comments. It's worrying how lacking in knowldege the army are..'have they thought about trying to reduce his sedation?' 'I bet thay (sic) havnt even tryed!'

Some of the things Ms Dance says with passionate conviction are really strange. She keeps saying she has been allowed to present evidence in court, yet we know that she submitted witness statement/s, she and Paul Battersbee both gave oral evidence, and they have solicitors whom they presumably trust who would have filed if they were relevant. If solid evidence existed to demonstrate that the doctors had lied, to that Archie is breathing, there is just no question that they would have submitted it - it would have been a slam dunk way to win the case.

The accusations that the hospital wants to murder or euthanise Archie are really weird too. Why on earth would they? Does she really believe that these people who spend their time saving children's lives suddenly decided they wanted to kill one little boy who had never done them any harm? And if they wanted to kill him, why would they do it this way? It would have been incredibly easy to achieve it at any time just by making a bit of a mistake with the vasopressin, or by being less careful when turning him, or a million other ways.

She e really seems to believe this stuff, even though it all falls apart the moment you start to ask questions about it. The psychiatry of it all is quite extraordinary.

And yet the child in the study linked to on the previous thread was also brain dead but was kept on life support for 20 years and was even moved from the hospital to his home and back again several times in that period.

There are clear differences between the two cases. Tony Bland’s brain stem was intact. It was the higher centres of the brain that were not functioning. Archie Battersbee brain stem is dead. It is necrotic and has been forced through the hole in the bottom of the skull into his spinal column. The brain stem is where the control centres for breathing and heart rate are. They are dead. Which means Archie is dead.

These are the questions only the staff looking after him can answer which obviously no one will do, a lot of our posts are based on our experiences and assumptions.

Bound to be, I'd have thought. I'm sure I read somewhere about him being given drugs to keep his blood pressure up.

I've seen a fuller version of the video that I posted last night - the one with Hollie and the guy in the pink top. In the fuller version he speaks about the government taking over control of our children blah blah. I've read that he's a conspiracy theorist but haven't been able to find out any more. I think she's being influenced by all kinds of dodgy characters.

They may be exploring all the possibilities in the hope of finding a compromise that can bring an end to the litigation.

Though it does seem to me the only question is "How is moving Archie in his best interests rather than his mother's?"

HappyHamsters answer was better than mine!

I suspect both sides have now agreed to a media blackout so the family can have those final hours with him in peace. Or, sadly, he's already passed away. There's always been a possibility his organs might fail while the legal battles were ongoing. If that has happened, I hope to god his parents were at his side and not doing interviews.

I think this is very true.

I think as a non medic it is very hard to get your head round just what Archie’s state means. That is his brain stem is as is believed dead his body can do NOTHING. Not even just blinking or breathing or reflexes but every single base bodily function that we probably don’t even think about. He is as sad as it is and as harsh as it sounds a dead body with all very basic functions controlled artificially.

8anyway im surprised the decision is taking so long considering all the other appeals were done within a couple of houes*

It isn’t an appeal, it’s a fresh application - and I’m not saying that to be pedantic! It makes a difference as to how hearing will take. Because this is a first instance decision on a fresh application, it’s likely that the judge (Theis J I think, so new to the case) will be hearing evidence and cross examination, in addition to the lawyers submissions. On an appeal, where is is a review of the lower court’s decision, it’s just the submissions. The upshot is that an appeal tends to be shorter. If the hearing started at 3:30 and the judge is having to hear evidence as to the medical position and viability of moving him etc, I’m not surprised at all it is still ongoing.

Sorry for the bold fail in my above post!

i thought the hpsital already stated he couldnt be moved in court previously they why i called it an appeal-sorry if this is wrong

or maybe as above theyve decided not to use sm anymore and are just preparing everything to say goodbye

I wasn’t being shitty and hope it didn’t come across that way, I’m sorry if it did. It’s all a bit sketchy on the detail so I am speculating.

i don’t think it can be an appeal because:
a) I haven’t actually seen Hayden J’s order but I don’t think that judgment dealt with hospice care. Even if it did though, they’ve already appealed that order and exhausted those routes of appeal.
b) Its before a single high court judge who wouldn’t be able to hear an appeal against another high court judge’s order, it would have to be the court of appeal.

Hopefully it will be reported soon and we will get some clarity

I'm quietly hoping that they have put a gagging order on all parties and that Archie's final hours have been agreed.