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Archie Battersbee thread 5

1000 replies

henryhihat · 04/08/2022 11:09

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SunsetandCupcakes · 04/08/2022 20:29

soundsofthesixties · 04/08/2022 20:01

I'm afraid that now on social media is Hollie Dances previous name and about the things she is well known for where she lives, it doesn't make for easy reading. This should make no difference to what she is going through but once this is over I think it will come out in the tabloids.

And it is very easy to find, I have seen it without looking for it, in fact it was searching for this thread on Google that showed the other names.

whynotwhatknot · 04/08/2022 20:30

no not at all didnt take it that way

HappyHamsters · 04/08/2022 20:30

BoreOfWhabylon · 04/08/2022 20:10

HappyHamsters answer was better than mine!

There may be posters on here who are involved in his care but they will not be divulging any information, at least I would hope not.

EYProvider · 04/08/2022 20:33

ContentInLife · 04/08/2022 20:04

And yet the child in the study linked to on the previous thread was also brain dead but was kept on life support for 20 years and was even moved from the hospital to his home and back again several times in that period.

There are clear differences between the two cases. Tony Bland’s brain stem was intact. It was the higher centres of the brain that were not functioning. Archie Battersbee brain stem is dead. It is necrotic and has been forced through the hole in the bottom of the skull into his spinal column. The brain stem is where the control centres for breathing and heart rate are. They are dead. Which means Archie is dead.

The study I’m referring to pertained to a 4 year old child who had meningitis. He was on life support for 20 years and when they finally removed it, his brain was completely calcified. The child was not called Tony Bland.

Cuck00soup · 04/08/2022 20:36

I agree with the poster a while ago who was discussing the reasons for Hollie's distrust of authority. We may not agree with her, but I hope we can understand that the lens through which she views interactions with authority has been formed by her prior experiences.

I suspect that in her mind, she believes she has been successful in the past, so why not this time.

I used to arrange rapid discharge from hospital for adults at the end of life and had to be so clear in my communication. For people and their families struggling to comprehend the situation they are in, it's cruel to leave any room for doubt or false hope and I would not assist them with an unrealistic plan without taking them through the potential problems honestly.

I'm sure experienced experts have tried desperately hard to help Hollie to understand and must be frustrated at being unable to reach her.

I hope she is able to find support and peace once this is over. I fear, as PP have pointed out the media will not be kind.

SunsetandCupcakes · 04/08/2022 20:37

EYProvider · 04/08/2022 20:33

The study I’m referring to pertained to a 4 year old child who had meningitis. He was on life support for 20 years and when they finally removed it, his brain was completely calcified. The child was not called Tony Bland.

And what if they do feel pain? We don't know for certain they don't.

anonacfr · 04/08/2022 20:40

I'm sure experienced experts have tried desperately hard to help Hollie to understand and must be frustrated at being unable to reach her.

The court papers specifically mention that Hollie refused to listen to the doctors regarding Archie's prognosis and instead went online to look for answers.

Fritilleries · 04/08/2022 20:40

SunsetandCupcakes · 04/08/2022 20:37

And what if they do feel pain? We don't know for certain they don't.

They don't. Brain dead means lack of any cognitive or sensory perception/interaction.

DonateBloodNCheckSmokeAlarms · 04/08/2022 20:41

Is there no-one tweeting from the court?
Can anyone link to the Louis Theroux documentary someone mentioned before about people being kept on ventilators for years?

FarFarFarAndAway · 04/08/2022 20:43

@DonateBloodNCheckSmokeAlarms It's called End of Life and it's on iplayer I think.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 04/08/2022 20:49

I suspect, as others on here have speculated, that there is a news blackout out of respect as the court hearing has almost certainly not gone as HD might have hoped and it is nearing the end. Twitter, news media and SM seem to have gone very quiet.

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2022 20:50

Quia · 04/08/2022 20:02

Some of the things Ms Dance says with passionate conviction are really strange. She keeps saying she has been allowed to present evidence in court, yet we know that she submitted witness statement/s, she and Paul Battersbee both gave oral evidence, and they have solicitors whom they presumably trust who would have filed if they were relevant. If solid evidence existed to demonstrate that the doctors had lied, to that Archie is breathing, there is just no question that they would have submitted it - it would have been a slam dunk way to win the case.

The accusations that the hospital wants to murder or euthanise Archie are really weird too. Why on earth would they? Does she really believe that these people who spend their time saving children's lives suddenly decided they wanted to kill one little boy who had never done them any harm? And if they wanted to kill him, why would they do it this way? It would have been incredibly easy to achieve it at any time just by making a bit of a mistake with the vasopressin, or by being less careful when turning him, or a million other ways.

She e really seems to believe this stuff, even though it all falls apart the moment you start to ask questions about it. The psychiatry of it all is quite extraordinary.

Agree.

I think we have very similar opinion on this and about the semantics and contradictory behaviour.

I quite often read your posts and have to check I didn't write them and forgot I did!

I have an interest in psychology as it is part of my job role (I work with different physchologists to determine best outcomes for children).

But I can't work out if she believes what she is saying, is deliberately being contradictory as to not allow any definitive information in the media or is actually is deep in the depths of despair she's also at detached and has no real connection to her words and what she's saying.

Because anyone of sound mind cannot honestly believe that there can be 2 very different situations of the same story?

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2022 20:53

Cantanka · 04/08/2022 20:15

Sorry for the bold fail in my above post!

Don't worry about that!

I think I remember you said you are a lawyer or work in law?

It's very helpful to have someone explain the process in terms of what it is rather than against opinion iyswim?

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/08/2022 20:53

I suspect a news blackout because to apply to take him to a hospice, they'd need to name a specific hospice and I would bet a condition of a hospice agreeing to take him is.. no media, no publication of where he is.

Artichokeleaves · 04/08/2022 20:55

It would appear the four year old in that case was considerably more stable than the medics caring for him report that this poor child is.

The bias from the hospital and court will be towards trying to find a way to do this transfer for the parents if at all possible. If, as the hospital have said, it is not possible, then they will need to evidence it to the last decimal place for the court to agree against the family's wishes and to prove every single option has been considered, and it's going to be a very tough situation all round for everyone involved. The court record for the Gards at this point referred to the desire on everyone's part not to make it any harder for the family or make them wait any longer than absolutely couldn't be avoided, and to grant what wishes and choices of the family they could, considering what an awful situation this is for them.

SunsetandCupcakes · 04/08/2022 20:56

Fritilleries · 04/08/2022 20:40

They don't. Brain dead means lack of any cognitive or sensory perception/interaction.

We don't know this for certain.

titchy · 04/08/2022 20:57

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 04/08/2022 20:49

I suspect, as others on here have speculated, that there is a news blackout out of respect as the court hearing has almost certainly not gone as HD might have hoped and it is nearing the end. Twitter, news media and SM seem to have gone very quiet.

I'd have thought one of their friends/family/supporters would have leaked on SM if that was the case. I can't see HD keeping quiet somehow.

DonateBloodNCheckSmokeAlarms · 04/08/2022 20:58

@FarFarFarAndAway thanks

Assuming the court's decision is he CANNOT be moved to a hospice, that would be ok to publicise?

I can't understand when Hollie/the doctors/lawyers/judges etc are all getting any sleep!

mummabubs · 04/08/2022 21:02

Apparently Archie's received no care at all. Can't lie, as an NHS worker this made my blood boil slightly.

Archie Battersbee thread 5
Archie Battersbee thread 5
MrsLargeEmbodied · 04/08/2022 21:03

hospital legal department must be working round the clock

Cantanka · 04/08/2022 21:03

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2022 20:53

Don't worry about that!

I think I remember you said you are a lawyer or work in law?

It's very helpful to have someone explain the process in terms of what it is rather than against opinion iyswim?

Yes I’m a practising lawyer (albeit no experience of these particular issues), my apologies if I haven’t explained it well though! I’m happy to try to clarify if you point to what it is

LarissaFeodorovna · 04/08/2022 21:09

titchy · 04/08/2022 20:57

I'd have thought one of their friends/family/supporters would have leaked on SM if that was the case. I can't see HD keeping quiet somehow.

If the Court has issued reporting restrictions on this matter (which seems like a very good idea indeed) they will have made it very very clear to all concerned what the consequences of breaking those restrictions would be, whether reporting by news media or private individuals on social media (Criminal prosecution for contempt of Court, basically).

whynotwhatknot · 04/08/2022 21:09

mummabubs · 04/08/2022 21:02

Apparently Archie's received no care at all. Can't lie, as an NHS worker this made my blood boil slightly.

I dont blame you thankyou for everything you do

mummabubs · 04/08/2022 21:10

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2022 20:50

Agree.

I think we have very similar opinion on this and about the semantics and contradictory behaviour.

I quite often read your posts and have to check I didn't write them and forgot I did!

I have an interest in psychology as it is part of my job role (I work with different physchologists to determine best outcomes for children).

But I can't work out if she believes what she is saying, is deliberately being contradictory as to not allow any definitive information in the media or is actually is deep in the depths of despair she's also at detached and has no real connection to her words and what she's saying.

Because anyone of sound mind cannot honestly believe that there can be 2 very different situations of the same story?

My best guess or formulation would be that sadly Archie did knowingly attempt to take his own life. His mum knows this deep down, which might lead to her/others thinking she's a bad mother. So her reaction and (very public) behaviour seeks to challenge that perception- all the terminology about "fighting" for him and "I'm only doing what any mother would do" all shouts 'Look at me, I'm a great mum'. If she stops fighting then maybe she hasn't got any other coping strategies to start to process Archie's situation, before and after this incident.

Eeksteek · 04/08/2022 21:12

EYProvider · 04/08/2022 19:54

And yet the child in the study linked to on the previous thread was also brain dead but was kept on life support for 20 years and was even moved from the hospital to his home and back again several times in that period.

Without wishing to be rude, that is like saying ‘my brother fell off his bike and broke his leg and got completely better after six weeks in a cast. I know your leg has been crushed by a forklift for four hours, but isn’t it basically the same? Why do they have to amputate?’

This isn’t just a glitch. It’s catastrophic carnage.

Archie isn’t just ‘not breathing’ he can’t manage his blood pressure, or his fluid balance. He can’t absorb nutrition. I’m not even sure he’s maintaining his body temperature. He can’t regulate his most basic bodily stability. His brain STEM (the bit that dues this most basic life maintenance) was without oxygen for a considerable period of time, by a method which prevents all blood flow - not an injury which loses blood, or a deterioration which prevents higher functions developing - but a complete loss of blood flow. Parts of his brain are no longer even located in his head, and are necrosing in his back, as it swelled so badly they were forced out of his skull into to his spinal column. Hanging is a method which fairly invisibly and cleanly destroys the most fundamental ability to control the most basic bodily functions.

All brain injuries are not the same. All children are not the same. I am so very sorry it is so, but Archie’s body is just on the very brink of what the most advanced and skilled medical care can do to keep his heart beating. It’s a tight rope he can stay on only with the most intensive and skilled support. It’s very difficult for people to appreciate this, I know. We think of our brain is just the thinking part of us. It’s not. It’s unbelievably and astonishingly complicated beyond most people’s comprehension, as comments like this demonstrate. (Telly has a lot to answer for here!). It’s not in the slightest bit comparable ‘a child in a study’. Twenty years ago, Archie would not have made it into the ambulance.

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