Archie Battersbee - Thread 3

[BongoJim]

Follow on from previous full thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4596573-archie-battersebee-case-thread-2?page=1

They presumably have to give each side time to put their arguments and the judges will take time to discuss their decision. possibly. I also wonder though whether the media are now being prevented from reporting in order to minimise the possibility of trouble.

I would imagine that Holly has been told that cameras etc will not be allowed, given the previous prevalence of pictures circulating on social media which she has taken. Given the wording used I sadly think it’s not beyond her to film the removal of life support and then put it up there as “footage of Archie’s execution.”

Agree.

Watching her interviews it's very clear she's been given a list of buzz words to use to gain maximum impact.

I would really like to know how she feels. I honestly do think she genuinely wanted more time to come to terms with this. It's very hard when your someone use to being in complete control to lose this. But she is being controlled by this Christian group. And they won't pick her up when she falls at the final hurdle.

I feel increasingly sorry for her the more she speaks out.

I think she's had a narrative driven at her so many times she doesn't even know herself what she wanted or wants anymore. She's just saying what she's been told whilst highly emotional and probably very physically tired too.

I feel desperately sad for her, and especially when, at a vulnerable time, she is being exploited by these people.

However, her past is relevant IMHO because she has consistently desired to be in the public eye. From what I can tell, this means she has allowed herself to be led by these charlatans. If her comments were balanced I might feel differently but what she saying about the medics is inexcusable.

i actually cant belive she did yet another interview instead of being with her child sorry if that seems harsh but there wa no need for it and yet again the word execution is used

does anyone thinik its strange that she mentioned she hasnt spoken to the boys father about the letter received about how they will end his life support

w0uldnt he be there today with him

Barts trust said that unless they are court ordered then the removal of life support will happen at 2 PM.

So they don’t have long left to make a decision. The stay is only until 1 PM.

I honestly think at this point the media have possibly been embargoed to prevent them reporting until the life support has been withdrawn.

Poor Archie x

I saw Archie’s story on social media towards the start of his hospital admission.

Very sad of course but as a critical care nurse what is sadder to me is the effects on that boys body of sustained, futile ITU treatment.

His muscles will have wasted to very little, his lungs completely ventilator dependent, his throat and mouth damaged from the ETT, invasive lines and tubes. I saw a lot on social media about the rate of enteral (NGT) feeding and how the hospital were ‘starving’ him - the poor boys gut isn’t absorbing enteral feed as he is so unwell, even if he did absorb it he is so fragile that it could make him even more unwell (refeeding, electrolyte imbalance etc). I feel for the healthcare team, especially bedside nursing staff who will just want this torture to end and navigating such difficult times.

The mother seems very vulnerable and to have been completely exploited by christian lunatics who shouldn’t be anywhere near healthcare or vulnerable people.

I hope an end is in sight, and that the hospital can be allowed to withdraw active treatment. At this point it is abuse.

I wish someone would sit down with her and explain medically what's happening- even if it takes 50 medical professionals to explain it. She's clearly being told the truth by staff at the hospital but the sour, drama- seeking 'supporters' around her are feeding her lies. She's finding every excuse to blame someone, when no one has done anything wrong to her or Archie. She needs to accept what's happened and let him go. I hope she gets the right support in the end, not lies from religious fanatics and people with no medical knowledge.

I've just come across a timeline of everything that has happened since April on-line. The mother's social media posts, 'fundriasing', merchandise, tv appearances, text messages, videos etc... What a messed up situation.

Poor poor lad. Rest in Peace Archie.

I agree but she will have had this?

I work in adult icu and senior doctors and nurses go through things like this with family from admission, every day or other day, as many times as needed. When I cared for a patient whose family had a difficult time, four different consultants spoke to the family multiple times.

Paediatric ICU’s are even more on it for family support and difficult conversations.

Sometimes families can’t or won’t accept what they are being told. She is clearly vulnerable and being fed a line by the CLC, everything the HCP tell her is probably being ripped apart by the CLC who will be gaslighting her and manipulating her.

A horrible situation but I know it’s not from HCP not engaging. Even in the worst of covid in the worst funded areas the efforts are made.

x

lets forget about the child or the mother's background at the moment
he did this while she was nearby in the house - imagine (lets not) how it must feel to know that. She would feel guilty even though its not warranted and she would need to displace that guilt by blaming others - its unimaginably horrific,but it does explain her actions.
I would have thought the police would investigate to see if the lad had been involved in an online challenge and say something about it or warn parents to watch out for this. They have not done so, so why has she not said something about that?

thankyu for a very informed post

and thanks for everyting you do

She absolutely will have had multiple people sitting with her and explaining things over the course of months. PICU staff do this for a living and they’re very good at it.

I would suspect every communication is now very formal because of the path she has taken. You can’t expect doctors and nurses to sit down and patiently and kindly explain things for the three hundredth time when there’s no will or ability to understand and when they’re being abused and accused of awful crimes instead of doing their job and having Archie’s welfare at the forefront as it should be.

I noted that.

The more this goes on the more illuminating it is.

Meanwhile we have a boy who deserves a peace in death he isn't going to get in life.

There are literally no winners in this in the end.

I do believe the machines should have been turned off ages ago. The poor boy is long gone.

It IS unfortunate though that we have these last-minute court hearings and "stays" which DO make it sound like a execution process.

Don't know what the alternative is though.

I feel desperately sorry for the consultants that have to make these type of decisions. The tabloids make out they are monsters who want to kill children to get beds.
But this would have been very carefully considered and in the best interests of the child. They spend their lives devoted to these very ill children yet get absolutely villified.

The family are the ones seeking the endless reviews and appeals, as is their right. So I don’t see that it looks like an execution process at all.

I hope this ends today so that she can stop and finally grieve for her son.

I can’t see how the family will have time to reconcile themselves, or make any kind of mental and emotional adjustment, if the planned switch off goes ahead today and am concerned it will get horribly messy

While I totally get this, I'm frankly not convinced that such an adjustment could ever be made since clearly they're just not receptive to the idea. After all it's been months now, and rather than coming to terms with the reality, the only approach has been to find yet another way to delay the inevitable

Given the continuing input of undesirable people with an agenda - to say nothing of the "Army" - it might even be thought that prolonging this could be a disservice to the family in the longer term, and that bringing things to a close may be the better option for them too

Its a terribly sad but I dont agree that the law needs to change or that this should be just the mothers decision, thats what the courts are for , to make an unbiased informed choice based on expert opinion. What needs to change is the people who set up these sort of online groups are traced, held responsible and face the justice system.

I would have thought the police would investigate to see if the lad had been involved in an online challenge and say something about it or warn parents to watch out for this. They have not done so, so why has she not said something about that?

They will be doing so. As pp have said, there will be a coroner's inquest, which will go into all the circumstances. It would be inappropriate for the police to say anything before that.

I'd have thought in these particular circumstances, the police would attend the first 999 call along with the paramedics - can anyone confirm whether they would?

While I totally get this, I'm frankly not convinced that such an adjustment could ever be made since clearly they're just not receptive to the idea. After all it's been months now, and rather than coming to terms with the reality, the only approach has been to find yet another way to delay the inevitable

You’re totally right of course (and I didn’t mean if as a criticism of the process or the timeline). I just wish it could be different and that they had better advice.

Presumably what the evangelical Christian groups want is long term “facilities” such as they have in the US. Grim prospect. It’s a great shame they’ve hijacked this family’s grieving and acceptance process for such a ridiculous - and doomed - mission.

Hopefully if his life support is to be withdrawn then the family can get the support they clearly need. Not people using them for their own agenda.

Sadly I don't think after she'll just let things lie..a lot more will no doubt be said. Plus there is a audience too so this whole army won't go away if she doesn't...