Archie Battersbee - Thread 3

[BongoJim]

Follow on from previous full thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4596573-archie-battersebee-case-thread-2?page=1

Yet in court their lawyer said it has been accepted he will pass in a matter of weeks..but should be down to when God chosew

Thats so sad, poor woman, surely only the medical evidence would determine if he is improving or deteriorating.

No, they didn't. They went to the UN instead because they recognised that the EHCR was basically never going to say anything different from what they said in the Gard and Evans cases. As pointed out, that may not stop them from going now simply to buy more time.

Ah right, that makes sense. Yes, so they might go to them now just to cause a further delay.

No. Contrary to what some are saying on here, Holly Dance appears to genuinely believe he is going to get better. According to the BBC, she has today said, ""I know Archie's still with us. He's very much there, he's progressing in so many ways."

I agree.

In her view she is fighting for his life, she most definitely doesn't agree that he is dead.

I really hope he isn’t in any physical pain.

Dont worry he wont be, he has no brain to interpret pain signals. He isn't sentient

If thats true then is he also unlikely to respond to touch and wouldnt be able to squeeze a hand

I hope the Supreme Court take a very hard line on how long they stay the matter for after their decision ie not for very long. On the one hand, I want Archie to have his family with him and I wouldn’t want it to be rushed or cruel to his family.

However, I believe it is firmly in Archie’s interests that this matter not be strung out yet further and there is a high chance of the family using the time to go to the ECHR and delay things further. They shouldn’t be given time to do so - they were given 48 hours by the Court of Appeal previously and chose not to. I really hope the Supreme Court’s decision ends up being final.

The problem is that her legal representatives, on her instructions, have told the court the opposite.

That's a reflex response which doesn't require sentience.

I can't believe she even knows what she is fighting for any more,

I agree. Enough is enough but the mother is determined she's going to "prove the experts wrong"
It's not about the poor child anymore or what's best for him.
It's disastrous if other parents believe what she's saying and decide to follow in her footsteps.

I honestly think other parents would listen to the experts. This isn't a person who listens to anyone.

Thankfully I don’t think there are too many Hollie Dances in the world. Most parents can put their child’s best interests first.

What happened to the child's court Guardian? Has that all fallen by the wayside?

I’ve seen reports Hollie Dance said in an interview she wants to remove Archie for his final moments. Obviously that can’t happen but I’m wondering if that’s the next delaying tactic - application to court in relation to how/where the treatment should be withdrawn (and the consequent appeals).

No, the guardian (or Archie via his Guardian) is still a party to the court proceedings as far as I can see - what makes you say that?

How can he be? He's brain dead! That's the whole point of the doctors wanting to turn off his life support!

I agree with those saying Ms Dance doesn't even seem aware of what she's fighting for now.

One minute she seems to accept he's gone in the sense of brain ability, in another she seems to think he's improving and progressing and in another breath she says when they withdraw treatment she wants him moved somewhere else to do it.

I think she's exhausted both mentally and physically. Her innate personally to fight authority has backfired here and she's dug herself a hole she actually doesn't know how to get out of.

That was where Charlie Guard's parents went after all appeals were exhausted, and that took further court proceedings and a few more days to organise. The parents initially wanted to take him home, which had multiple issues not least what happened if parents then refused to allow it once the child was at home. There were also issues finding a hospice able to cope with the media circus around it all. The whole situation just becomes appalling for everyone involved, particularly the child and parents.

Could Archie even be transported with all his equipment?

Someone up thread says Ms Dance is vulnerable. I agree. I think she’s probably had very few people on her side in life, facing a huge trauma, and suddenly here is this group telling her everyone’s out to get her boy and funding her fight for their own ends, plus the internet crazies on their latest emotional tourist trip.

I thinks fought her whole life and doesn’t know what to do apart from that.

I hope she finds peace somehow. There’s nothing more she can do and that’s a terrible realisation.

I'm one of the people that said I think she's vulnerable to those around her @RJnomore1

Imagine you've led a fairly mundane existence to date. No super high-flying career, probably a fair bit of drudgery in your role as a wife and mother, not that many people interested in what you've got to say and all this against a backdrop of social media = fame and fame = success.

Then suddenly your world is turned upside down and you are at the lowest and most vulnerable point of your life - practically broken - and people start whispering in your ear that you should 'fight for your boy' and you are lost, so you do and then it snowballs, and they you're in the paper and suddenly people are listening to you - they are actually printing your words and tv crews want to hear what you have to say - and then you're on the news and people are talking about your son - who you love and are about to lose and you are the reason his picture is on the telly and so on and so on. I imagine it could be fairly intoxicating alternative to just quietly switching of life support and trying to go on in your mundane life but minus your beloved child.

The people around her are mostly doing it for the drama/attention and she is just a vessel for them to get their moment. They'll all be "you've got this Hun" at the moment without a thought for the inevitable outcome and what the impact of that might be on Hollie Dance when all is said and done.

So yes, I don't think she has been 'dignified' - and boy do we love 'dignified' - because I don't think that's her nature, but fuck me, she has been egged on and pushed forward by people who should have been quietly steering her in a completely opposite direction.

Yes and when Archie ,sadly passess away" the army " will all move on from this leaving her even more alone.----

You know, I had kind of forgotten a lot of the Alfie Evans case. Reading the Wikipedia for it now and it really was something. Very similar in many ways and the CLC were involved in that too. And Alfie's dad tried to issue a private prosecution alleging conspiracy to murder against Alder Hey? My goodness...