Archie Battersebee case-thread 2

[whynotwhatknot]

ongoing from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4573803-archie-battersbee-case?page=40

MRIs are done in slices, not all of his teeth would have been on the same plane/slice. Nothing sinister or unusual

Mmm yes , MRI would be date /time and patient ID (hospital number/NHS number ) identified

The army are convinced that because Archie did a poo, he is not brain dead.

Yes, and when the mother’s barrister challenged the evidence as being someone elses’s MRI scan (because of the teeth, and that there was no identifying information showing on the images) they were able to show the images were simply close ups and the originals did, indeed, have Archie’s personal hospital information on them so absolutely were his scans

So why have the hospital not switched off the life support now. They’ve been refused leave to go to the UN, which was a ludicrous suggestion anyway, but it’s been made abundantly clear that the hospital ca now legally remove life support at any time. So why haven’t they?

I suspect they may do it at a time when people are less likely to invade and also they have to agree a day/time with family

They may be trying to reason with the Mum to avoid going in against her wishes ?

Probably to give the family some time and to attempt to come to some agreement and plan. The hospital are not heartless however difficult this has been they will still do all they can to facilitate the best possible death for him. They will likely wait until family members are able to be present. If needs be the will potentially need police in attendance too. It all needs planning.

f they are as they say waiting for God to decide , why not remove everything . If he's alive there will be some reaction. If he's dead there will be none
On the seventh day , God didn't make ventilators .

I don't believe in this sudden conversion and o very much doubt. Archie had a 'deep faith' praying before a MMA thing really isn't the same.

Has Hollie made any posts today to indicate accepting the situation or still defiant? I aren't on SM .

It would be awful if she wants it to come to an end now, but doesn't want to be seen to 'back down' because of pressure from the Army.

Parents are on a roller coaster and they cant get off now even if they wanted to.
So sad

Sadly still seems to be in denial.

Another post this morning about how Archie had a great night, she asked for vasopressin to be reduced, and listing the medications he's on which are all "standard for any hospital bedridden patient".

No, she says she is still not done fighting.

Have no idea where she can go from here other than individual UN appeal.

So much time wasted which is exactly what she wanted. I think deep down she knows he is going to die and this is purely so the court doesnt 'win'. She wants him to crash and die on the vent. That is a win to her. Because then 'He gave up.'

As much as the hospital want the parents to cooperate it’s very clear this isn’t going to happen.

Someone needs to step in while the parents are there with him, say “we’re turning off the ventilator now,” so as to avoid her getting the fro there to turn up at the hospital, and then it needs to be done.

The court orders are useless if there isn’t an outcome, otherwise they might just as well have held on and not spent millions and millions of pounds bringing this case to court.

*frothers

so shes going to be happy if shes possibly not even there when it happens

how is that a win-they cant resusitate so whoever is there will be the only ones

shes being really stubborn now

She's doing herself nor her son any favours coming across as a know it all control freak.
Bloody shame for that lad I'm just glad he doesn't know.

Thing is that once this is over she’s going to be on her own.

The army aren’t going to be around, they’ll move on to their next cause, and she’s lost pretty much all sympathy from the public. If she’d just let him go in the beginning she would likely have had some support, but now she’s likely to end up with none.

I'm clearly being thick!

But if Dance and Battersbee truly believe Archie can believe without ventilation support (as per their videos proving this is the case) why are they so dead set against the life support being switched off?

Surely they could at least be discussing with the hospital the use of bi pap instead to support his breath input and output?

And when they do eventually withdraw ventilation I'm really concerned how they'll cope if he attempts to take any breaths independently. They are so ingrained in their belief now the hospital is trying to kill him I don't think they'll ever find any peace with any of this.

She's posted a picture of a younger Archie with the caption 'Erm did someone suggest my mum gives up fighting for me ? How about NOT A BLOODY CHANCE x'

She has also posted a picture of a pup saying that Archie wanted this dog so she's going to get one. A first step towards something that will help her through the acceptance and healing process maybe.

When my DP’s brother was on life support they discussed the possibility of giving him a tracheostomy. But they said that to do that he would have to be able to breathe independently for two minutes while it was inserted and that wasn’t possible.

When they turned off the ventilator DP said it sounded as if he tried to breathe but they assured him it was a reflex. Anyway it took him less than a minute to die.

Withdrawing life support from someone who is brain dead isn’t the same as withdrawing it from someone who is in a vegetative state. Someone who is vegetative may possibly breathe for a period, but Archie won’t. He is dead. The only reason he is breathing is because the machine is doing it for him. As soon as the ventilator is switched off any breathing will stop and the heart will arrest.

I think it might a reflex action which appears to be breaths? Any medical folk feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I was by the side of a close family member who passed away with cancer. The HCP confirmed death but told us not to be alarmed that my relative may take a few gasps, which they did xx

It must be tempting for the doctors to go along with reducing vasopressin, if only to precipitate an ending. Except that it would precipitate that horrible, chaotic ending that no-one except Hollie and CLC think is a good idea. I doubt that even her followers think that's a good idea, the trouble is they think it won't happen.

It’s like she just wants to win now. No matter what. Like it’s not about Archie at all.

The trouble is she's fighting against him, poor kid. None of this is about what benefits Archie.

Someone way upthread posted about the withdrawel of his medications and monitors , and the removal of his arterial line leading to a bleed that would be pressure applied (arterial pressure blood leak and I'm guessing he's on an anticoagulant ?)

There was a photo of a bleed on his sheet and Hollie posting "Can anyone advice"
Stating it was sorted in minutes , then saying it was hours and she didn't have answers (there were several answers online from "OMG thats awaful" to "Lines can leak and its not a lot of blood really" )

He is moved for bathing and pressure relief and no doubt to detach/attach lines

There will be monitors that will flag a loose line

She's very unlikely to accept the effects of an Arterial Line removal if she has to witness her son bleed so much

(And she'll probably say the loss of blood was deliberate in their plan )

Am I right in thinking that people who have been on ventilators for some time but then start to breathe still need a lot of support? I think it's not a case of "Oh good, he's started breathing on his own, we can switch the ventilator off". So, to be fair, in a way if you really believe Archie is in the first stages of recovery it's perfectly rational to say that the vent shouldn't be switched off, but that they should progress to a slow process of weaning him off.

The problem is, of course, that believing he is recovering is, in these particular circumstances, totally irrational anyway.