Archie Battersebee case-thread 2

[whynotwhatknot]

ongoing from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4573803-archie-battersbee-case?page=40

Yes they would.

They would obviously do everything they could to agree a process with the parents, but if the parents absolutely refuse to cooperate then they have the remit of the courts to remove the life support.

Wow. In all of this there's something especially awful about the idea of doctors and nurses going in to turn him off without his mum there.

No judging of docs and nurses obvs. What else can they do?

It's all just horrific but the thought of that, for me, just sort of tops it all off 😔

The Supreme Court have refused permission to appeal. Breaking news on Sky just now.

Hopefully this is the end now and that poor boy can go in peace.

Wow. In all of this there's something especially awful about the idea of doctors and nurses going in to turn him off without his mum there.

I don't think so anymore tbh. Not when her behaviour is encouraging randoms to storm the ward and disturb other patients and the staff.

I know he's not 'there'. It's just a physical shell. But the complete awful pointless macabre'ness of it all would just be .... a typical awful end if the turning off of all the machines was with her not there. Busy fussing with the media or something.

Wow. In all of this there's something especially awful about the idea of doctors and nurses going in to turn him off without his mum there. i don’t think so tbh. The doctors and nurses are the ones who have cared about his dignity throughout this.

My Dear Dad passed away unexpectedly, at home, and i rushed over to be with mum and to see him.

When i went into the room i knew he wasn't 'there'. He looked at peace. He looked just like him laying there. But HE wasn't in the room. He had gone on. The strangest thing. I don't talk about it because i can't without crying! I can type about it though.

I just think - can't she feel Archie has gone? I've wondered this the whole time.

I hope she is wise enough to spend his last hours peacefully with him, holding his hand and present. I hope the family have a lot of actual support too, these armies disappear as soon as the final decision is made.

Has anyone been following baby A?

@Laiste · my partner was there when his brother’s life support was removed as there was no hope of recovery. He said when he went to see him on the Friday he was reading to him etc and could sense him. But when he went in on the Monday he just didn’t feel he was there any more.

Technically he wasn’t dead iyswim but all his organs had shut down and he would never have regained consciousness or breathed again without a ventilator so treatment was withdrawn. But DP still said he really just wasn’t there any more anyway.

Eurgh there's video at his bedside , they're asking for "generous" donations of all our pennies to pay for his medical care and legal fees that he'll "need"
At the moment he's just having a "nice long little nap"

Jesus wept

Hopefully when the hospital do decide to switch everything off there will be a media black out (though Hollie will still post online )
Next will be the funeral which no doubt will bring all of Southend out to line the streets .

It's on the Supreme Court website as well. They didn't look into issues of jurisdiction, but did not find any errors of law and therefore there is no legal argument to take to the Supreme Court. So jurisdiction is irrelevant, from what I understood

Eurgh there's video at his bedside , they're asking for "generous" donations of all our pennies to pay for his medical care and legal fees that he'll "need" At the moment he's just having a "nice long little nap"

what????

This was said today??

@MayThe4th i'm not a religious person at all. But this is about the spirit isn't it? Their spirit had moved on. Comforting in a strange way.

@MayThe4th I've heard of parents in the same situation say similar things. "They went yesterday"

That's also what my mother said about my father when she gave permission for life support to be stopped. He wasn't there. He was gone.

@Laiste they will not withdraw treatment without parents present if they wish to be. If he goes into cardiac arrest while they aren't there it's a different matter.

The key though is whether they wish to be.

The hospital won’t simply keep delaying the turning off of life support if the parents refuse to go to the hospital any more in the belief that they can delay things that way.

Yes, here is the decision for those interested: www.supremecourt.uk/news/permission-to-appeal-decision-in-the-matter-of-archie-battersbee.html

Where is all this money going to?

Medical bills are paid.
Hospital paid.
Most lawyer bills are paid.

So why do they still need thousands of pounds

They seem to have gone quiet on the allegation that Archie was breathing. Either they're keeping that in reserve, or they haven't found any independent experts who agree that there is any evidence of independent breathing.

The hospital aren't going to withdraw his life support without his mum being there if she wants to be.

Ashley Cain raised over a million £s that has never been publicly accounted for...... and the funeral for their baby was a shocking obscenity.

Hollie and her family have been raising funds too, though closer to £50k so nothing like as much as the Cain family.

Anyone giving to these funds are fools. There is no legal accountability whatsoever for how the money gets spent.

I know they're not acting rationally, but refusing to go to the hospital to be with Archie would surely be the epitome of cutting off your nose to spite your face? They know he could go at any time "naturally"; surely if that happens they'd forever regret having given up the chance to be with him.

My mum said the same about her dad and mum when they died - that they were gone and the body left behind was just a shell.

That was 18 years ago. We were in NICU at the same time as that family. It was just awful. The staff were incredible and had to deal with so much relating to them.

It changes the whole atmosphere of NICU, an already challenging and emotional time. I can’t imagine how the other parents on Archie’s PICU unit are feeling with this awful situation going on.

And as a clinician my heart goes out to the staff on the unit; it must just be horrific to work in that sort of environment. I read in one of the court summaries there were about 4000 pages of medical notes and that was a while ago, I imagine it’s double that now. Imagine being under such scrutiny and suspicion that your normal thorough and contemporaneous notes are even more thorough as they’re subject to such intense revision.

I see a few people have expressed dismay at Archie receiving blood - I don’t remember reading that? I thought it said he’s had iron infusions (not the same as a blood transfusion).

Overall I think this is a tragic case. But his mother is really not putting her child’s interests first, unlike the legal and clinical system.