So sending a picture of your breasts to Nuts magazine is empowering

[milfAKAmonkeymonkeymoomoo]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7150200.stm

Thanks MT. Its nice to know I am not the only one that has been through it. My DH is the only other person that knows and he doesn't like talking about it.

Anyway I will not hijack anymore.

I think what Bella said about the whole nuts culture speaks the most sense here.

'It is not encouraging women to value their attractiveness to men as one small part of their humanity, but as the whole point of their existence.'

This, unfortunately is true, as women we should be able to embrace our sexuality as a part of our being without other women thinking we are in some way degrading either them or ourselves or men thinking that we are somehow less of a human being with real rights and beliefs and the power to be of some use!

Of course not all of the women in 'nuts' will have thought their only possible way to be noticed was their breasts in a magazine, some will have been from their partners wanting to show off their gf's perfect pair. I do wonder how that would come into this debate. Is your partner thinking your body is wonderful and wanting to show it off degrading?

Are you saying the partner wants the woman to show her body off VS, or the woman who wants to show her body off because her partner thinks it's amazing?

I still think it shows how powerless women are that our bodies are still considered the most important things about us and something that we should constantly worry about whether it's being concerned they aren't good enough or being smug because they are supposedly "better" than other women's.

It's like being in a constant beauty contest. I'm surpised chaps in the street don't just hold up score cards when we pass.

Didn't read carefully enough, VS. Guys sending in pics of their girlfriend to Readers Wives or Nuts (subtext "I own this") is obnoxious and sexist. If they need to show off something private let them send in pics of their own dicks.

It is sad to read that the general concensus of being "attractive to men" is being sexy/young. This is so untrue. I am 51 and would now aspire to be more in the elegant mode but certainly find that men still find me attractive and I most certainly still get flirted with. Strangely, this is often younger men! I really believe that one can still be "attractive" even in much later life. My mum was 81 when she died, happily married, still beautiful and very much admired by her male friends. She was also an accomplished flirt - there for the grace of God go I ... !

It doesn't mean you are not attractive, MOB. But really, who in their right mind wouidl think they could compete in any real sense past 40 or even 35 with a 18 year old beauty. Youth is part of beauty. It is possible to be a beautiful 50 year old, I;m sure, but it is a very different set of criteria.

The whole problem is that women are feeling oppressed and/or offended by the immages of younger women all around them, thinking that it somehow invalidates them as older women with something more than their looks to define them. But lets not kid ourselves, women's looks matter to women just as much as they do to men. There is no male conspiracy at source here. We have not been so brainwashed that we don';t know our arse from our elbow. It really would be saying something very sexist about the stupidity and gullibility of women if it was!

So re the OP it wouldn't ve empowering for me to get my knockers out in Nuts, not after a year of breastfeeding and even though they are still in pretty good nick, because I would be compared to many other knockers who have barely began to aclimiatise to gravity. But really, what isn'ty their to celebrate about beautiful confiodent young women? A woman's sexuality is probably the most powerful tool she has, especially when young and at the heights of her powers.

It would be nice if society celebrated femininity in it's whole spectra of course and that is maybe where the pressure should be. But not to stop the celebration of young feminine beauty because older women feel the pang of their lost youth. It's relevent, but not worth oppressing young women for.

I don't agree with the subtext of 'I own this', I have tons of pictures of my bf on my myspace, showing him off cos I think he is gorgeous, if I was happy for him to show off my boobs then I'd say it was the same tbh.

I agree VS. Seems to be another false dichotomy. The whole concept of 'ownership' is central to monogamous relationships. It can be taken to extremes of course, but again the middle ground is vast and pretty innocuous.

I would strongly take issue with the idea that older women object to younger women getting their tits out because they feel a pang about their own lost youth.

I think your ideas are very idealistic MT and in a world where women are valued as much as men, young, old and indeterminate women could get their tits out (and any other bits of them they wanted too) without any comment or raised eyebrows, just celebration (along with all those men as well).

But the nuts culture isn't about celebrating women's sexuality. It's about celebrating men's control over women's sexuality. That's what I object to.

Well can I just reply to the last post.

My DH is 32 and fancies older women, i.e. women in their 50's plus. I have asked him in the past would he prefer a fit 18 yo and he said a firm no. He has always fancied older women since we first met . I am 5 years older than him but i found some porn mags in his drawer & the front cover said "over 50's" , I suppose I should be grateful .

I don't think that negates my point S.

There are all sorts of fetishes catered for by the porn market. Fat women, older women, disabled women, "Asian Babes", skinny women, "reader's wives" (IE ordinary looking women) etc. All of them essentially a sexual fantasy disconnected from the major part of their humanity.

But Bella, doesn? t this thread show that that isn?t the case at all?

Again, I?d ask exactly how Nuts magazine celebrates male control over womens sexuality because without real evidence it?s just another empty slogan. Around the world we see the manifestation of mens control over women?s sexuality, and it looks the exact opposite to Nuts magazine. These women are not terrorised into posing, are they?

Sham the fact that a minority of men fancy older women does not change the fact that most fancy younger men ? this is objectively of course, loving relationships allow for many things. Minority fetishes do not make a norm.

fancy younger women

I think your typo had a point too MT. As women do we not look at younger fit men and say 'phwoar?'.

It isn't just a masculine point that people look great younger.

I think many men have a part of them that fancies older women too tbh, there is a knowledgeable sexuality about them younger women just cannot have.

Yes, the flush of youth is just as potent in men as well as women i think. But while women have no problem apreciating male beauty, their is plenty of evidence to show that young beautiful women are prepared to forego that and do for older less attractive males who have status and access to resourses. The cliche about men getting more attractive as they get older is true. But agiain, that isn't to say women are not attractive - but being attractive for ones age is not the same as being atypically attractive. Does that make sense?

young beautiful women in substancial i.e. statsitically relevent numbers, that is