So sending a picture of your breasts to Nuts magazine is empowering

[milfAKAmonkeymonkeymoomoo]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7150200.stm

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Yes that's exactly the sort of rationale I've heard before. People who object are:

a) Jealous or
b) Judgemental (usually meaning prudish).

Certainly not jealous. Not even worth commenting on that. But judgemental, yes. I use my beliefs and my education to evaluate the world and to make judgements on it. Want to know any more about what those judgements are?

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THing is, there's still this concept that women should regard sex, their bodies, or sexual display, as currency. 'bad' women trade it for short-term attention or indeed for actual cash: 'good' women are supposed to trade it for a wedding ring or at least 'commitment'. The problem with the way women are percieved and discussed, unlike men, is that what every woman does is likely to be siezed on as some kind of truth, or standard to aspire to, for all women. If any woman dares to state that she is doing the things she does (be it stripping, enjoying group sex, remaining childfree or giving up her well-paid job to be a SAHM) because she wants to, then she gets it in the neck for being bad example to other women and for being 'selfish'.

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OK, well here goes (then I'm going to bed, not ignoring any reply). Not sure what your job is (not read the thread entirely):

I think women are routinely objectified in our society and I think women who present themselves as tits on legs (or more sophisticated versions of the same male fantasy where women are just bodies without brains) are contributing to that.

I think the objectification of women leads to disrespect in many forms including violence against women.

I think that although physical attraction is obviously important for everyone (male and female) it's frankly a bit sad to be so excited by the fact that men find you attractive. I mean, every one of us has presumably been found attractive by at least one person at some point in their life...it's really no big deal. Turning it into a philosophy of life or a career is just a bit sad.

Anyone who is jealous of this I would assume to be also a bit insecure about their attractiveness to men and therefore also in need of a bit of maturity.

Told you I could be judgemental.

Also, one last comment.

There's a corruption of an argument about liberty which assumes "judgements" are incompatible with liberty. The whole "it's my body and therefore I can do what I wish with it" argument.

It's undeniable that you can do what you want with your body in a liberal society. However, because we live in society other people will have views about what constitutes a positive and helpful way to live. If there were no views and there was no one arguing for or against certain forms of behaviour, there would be no society and we would be living in a strange anarchy in which your rights to remain untouched by those male viewers would not be protected.

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by MotherFunk

"I do find it empowering.

To have power over men, to have them look at me when I am dressed sexy or revealing, whatever. As part of my job I am on show. On show. Not to be touched. Same in these magazines.

It makes you feel incredibly sexy, empowered, strong etc. I dont find it degrading."

I take it you are a pole dancer/lap dancer MF?

Empowering is not a word I would use. Speak for yourself.

I wouldn't say that someone who is 'on show' is necessarily a pole dancer.

MotherFunk could be a newsreader or other TV presenter, a fashion model, a PR person, a dancer, an actor, an artist's model - any others?

I would agree that some of these jobs are not all about showing your body, but the way people are expected to be, they are at least partly about that.

Motherfunk, you are only tapping into and exploiting a basic male urge. It's not that difficult to do. I imagine most of us could experience that type of 'empowerment' if we felt like making ourselves look like idiots in the process.

I think I read on another thread she was a pole dancer (apologies if I am wrong MF) the point is, the comment she made is not empowering - giving young impressionable men the wrong idea about women maybe?

It's pretty sad that the only power a lot of women seem to be able to imagine is the so-called power (which isn't power at all) to turn men on.

Exactly Elizabeth.

I think its because 'celebrities' all look like that, getting their kit off, stupidly thin etc. They get loads of money and lead a lifestlye many people want, just for looking a certain way. So, I guess that these women are hoping for a bit of that? They can't just want to get their tits out for a one-off, they must be wanting to be the next page 3 model or something. I mean, you don't see many images in the media of famous female scientists or engineers or other 'brainy' professions.

personally, I change my mind about this subject. Really, making loads of money by flashing your tits is pretty easy compared to some other ways of making that money. If I could make a mint out of flashing my tits, I would!

Then, I think of the anorexia, objectification of women and the glass ceiling int he workplace etc etc, which are all I think affected by women doing such things. And I just couldnt do it to other women!

And I also really worry about how all of this will affect ds's opinions of women.
But I am an adventuring, intelligent, independent, strong minded woman who does anything a man can do, and it's never occurred to me that someone should treat me differently because I am female. Hopefully, ds will see this as how women really are.

I find it very sad that some women think it is empowering to get your tits out for the lads . Unfortunately, some women don;t have the intelligence to know any different.

I haven't read the whole thread and I'm not trying to get into any arguments, but I actually quite like my breasts and would be happy to show them off.

Probably not in nuts because I think it's somewhat tacky, but I wouldn't have a problem with having them photographed and printed.

Although, I would probably want a really beautiful artistic shot, that I felt celebrated the beauty of the feminine form not the crap they spread across the fronts of these mags.

I think the very liberated MotherFunk must be working tonight. I wonder what she does for a living .

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MF, if you are lucky, you are going to spend much, much longer on earth being unattractive to men than being attractive to them.

The trouble with the idea that it's a wonderful way to live, to be empowered to be on show to men, is that men only want you on show for about 20 years. You've then got the other 50 or 60 to find empowerment which isn't dependent on the sexual response of men to your physical beauty.

The only way to get round that, is to undergo several unnecessary operations to mimic your younger self. And even then, it doesn't work, because when you're post menopausal and knackered, the fact tht you've got plastic tits and botoxed lips, can't compete with the twenty year old who is real.

It just doesn't sound that empowered to me

Me thinks those girls who think it is empowering either misread the meaning of empowering in a dictionary or taught english badly.

I want to laugh and cry at that article.

I dare someone to send a picture of them breastfeeding and title it "This is what breasts were made for".

chosing to be nude as a career is quite diferent IMO from sending a picture to a magazine of your tits becusae you find it empowering.

i wonder where pride and dinity have gone. i also think class is a thing of the past - it went out of the window with principles

If a whole load of post menopausal grannies with saggy breasts sent pictures in to Nuts in order to feel empowered, would they print the photos? I doubt it. Nuts only allows "empowerment" to young women with the right sort of breasts.