So sending a picture of your breasts to Nuts magazine is empowering

[milfAKAmonkeymonkeymoomoo]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7150200.stm

Fiofio, that's terrible but at the same time - SO CUTE!

I have a friend who always gets her boobs out for the lads when we go out into town. She is an absolute disgrace and needless to say I no longer go out with her - she said it is very liberating & you have to give men what they want .

Yes, that's equality for you ladies. We can all be utter twats together

I'd have to send a picture of mine into a broadsheet so they could print the picture lengthways across 2 pages

Or, to make sure I am being fair with the insults, too; we can all be complete dicks together.

Do you know I sometimes wonder how far forward we are with feminism when I see things like this ?

I listened to a debate on Radio 4 about it and the younger girls were saying that wearing tight clothes made them feel confident ( or something like that) and I just thought is that what it was all about then ?

Did our mothers mothers fight for us to go to work - which we can now do and are still expected to manage all the childcare and the house as well, earn the same salary - which we don't, or did they do it so we could get our tits out in a lads mag and claim that its the blokes that are getting exploited ?

I listened to that programme too Rookie, and I thought it spoke volumes about the society we live in that teenage boys were interviewed who thought revealing clothes on girls/women was a message that the girl was 'up for it' and therefore could be raped. Also this who pole-dancing thing. I don't understand how it can possibly be empowering for the women who do it for 'fun'.

'...this whole pole dancing thing.'

Another thing about that broadcast, and maybe its a sign of my age, but when the girls were talking about wearing tight clothing at work to get them noticed, I am paraphrasing here, I thought well yes but lets see what happens when you get to 35 and no ones interested in seeing you in short skirts anymore and all anyone cares is if you can do the job. Or when you get pregnant and its harder for you to push ahead in the office using your looks because you are no longer deemed to be "sexy".

Women using their sexuality is such a double edged sword I worry about those girls and how they are going to get through adulthood with some of the bizarre ideas they have.

Rookietherednosedreindeer-I agree with you that it is very depressing that some intelligent women will say that they do pole dancing for fun.
I thought it very sad that Kate Moss did that pole dancing video for The White Stripes and it was meant to be hip and cool rather than sleazy and sad.

blimey they must have been pretty powerless before then

I have known women like this and they are on totally different planets to me. I'd find it absolutely excrutiating.

I despair. But then again what else do you expect when role models are seen as Jordan, Britney and Paris?

When I was younger I read Dorothy Parker and Gloria Steinem amongst others and I might not have agreed with all they thought or said but it was a lot more empowering than getting the ladies out for an airing for a bunch of knuckle-draggers.

Are women like this really the norm though? I am a lecturer and I have never met any girls that aspire to becoming a sex object. None of my female friends are like this either and none of my male friends find this sort of things attractive. Is it just another media stereotype?

I know more than one or two young women like this, sad to say.

I'll admit that in my late teens to early 20s a large part of my self esteem was caught up in how "sexy" I looked.

I don't think it's the norm, but I think it's increasingly more commonplace

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article3085180.ece

All explained by "boobonomics"

Its very depressing, and IMO gives rise to the all-too-common attitude among many men (especially younger ones) that women should be sexy/available at all times.

I find that on a night out , women are frequently seen getting their tits out and suchlike - women like me who find it distasteful and even offensive are seen as the ones who have the problem.

If you don't wish to conform to the "ideal" (as pushed by Nuts/Zoo) then you must be "uptight/frigid/not liberated".

I do think that these magazines are damaging to women - but that seems to put me in a minority, even among my (otherwise right thinking) friends.

My beautiful, bright, funny, multi-talented 14 yr old cousin aspires to be 'like Jordan'. She genuinely believes that Jordan has the ultimate lifestyle and would love to be just like her when she grows up. I find this incredibly depressing.

"I'll admit that in my late teens to early 20s a large part of my self esteem was caught up in how "sexy" I looked."

I'm sure you're not the only one geekymummy. We all behave in variously odd ways when we are growing up before we are fully sure of ourselves. Toddlers pick their noses but generally people look away and/or tolerate the behaviour hoping it will pass. The difference here is that a national magazine is expoliting this temporary aberration and giving it credence.

I find it sad that the financial success of the likes of Jordan is held up to justify the 'empowering' thing.

If you are prepared to totally prostitute yourself for money or adoration, that is not empowerment. It is prostitution. How many of these misguided girls and women would aprreciate being likened to prostitutes?

THe thing is, dressing sexily or displaying yourself can be empowering, in some circumstances. If you've been brought up to think of the human body as shameful or dirty, or if for some reason you have felt, or been made to feel, ugly and undesirable for a long time then having your appearance admired can make you feel better, stronger, and more in control of your life. The problems attached to 'raunch culture' are a bit more complicated than what some women choose to wear. It isn't in itself bad or wrong to enjoy showing off or to want lots of casual sex, after all. The ways in which women are judged, objectified, dismissed etc are not just to do with how much sexual display individual women choose to engage in: look at the constant sniping over women who choose to seek high-paying, high flying jobs (they must all be frigid or desperate and WHAT ABOUT THEIR BIOLOGICAL CLOCKS EH?) and the endless, ludicrous, articifical 'rivalry' between the SAHM and the WOHM?

When my boyfriend was here he went to a club with my brother, a load of women were there on their works do and as he's Texan took a shine. He's a flirt anyway so loved the attention but he said he was glad to get away as they were making him spin round and going on about his arse. He couldn't believe it
I must say I did laugh, he must think us British women are testosterone fuelled He likes looking at scantily clad women and porn so it made a nice change for him to be the butt of it

I find the similarity between the words used by these girls to explain their choices (empowering, liberating) and the words used by women wearing the hijab (liberating, empowering) quite extraordinary.

Either way, it's all about the male gaze - either seeking it out or hiding from it. We'll have reached equality when our bodies are our own, first and foremost. I don't see it happening any time soon though.

I don't think I would find it empowering as they would just laugh.