So sending a picture of your breasts to Nuts magazine is empowering

[milfAKAmonkeymonkeymoomoo]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7150200.stm

Message withdrawn

yes - they are all riddled with botox and surgery.. oh, and MM killed herself.

I don't really know what you mean by that list. These women may or may not be strong and empowered, but as pumpkin says, most of them have had unnecessary operations purely for cosmetic purposes because their real appearance is unacceptable and none of them owe their fame or empowerment purely to getting their kit off. Undressing in a film is incidental, not the whole point of it.

I don't really know what you mean by that list. These women may or may not be strong and empowered, but as pumpkin says, most of them have had unnecessary operations purely for cosmetic purposes because their real appearance is unacceptable and none of them owe their fame or empowerment purely to getting their kit off. Undressing in a film is incidental, not the whole point of it.

I'm sorry my pc seems to be posting everything twice

it does make me wonder because if that what these girls aspire to what will they feel once they get older and their bodies in their eyes become less attractive. They will be in for a shock. I suppose surgery will be one answer but in the long run alot of girls in the fture at some point will have major issues especially when they see themselves in competition with younger girls.

What's empowering about turning men on? They think about sex every 10 seconds anyway. Having some bloke leer at you and judge you or maybe want to shag you really isn't that empowering, it's just living under the male gaze. They tell you it's empowering, in the hope that you will do it but I really don't see them respecting these women.

Fantastic con trick though.

it's the consequence of having people like Jordan as a role model in society.

amen beansprout

Margaret Thatcher
Benazir Bhutto (RIP)
Queen Elizabeth I
Catherine the Great

Powerful women on a global scale. Ain't no-one outside their immediate family ever seen their tits.

Don't tell me showing your body to leering men makes you powerful. That's a bad joke.

lol exactly bbs.

Whenever people talk about masturbation aids I'm always gobsmacked. Men need more encouragement to think about sex? Really? Gosh. It's amazing they rule the world, really

Part of the problem with the 'assess my breasts' concept is that the pics just show the breasts, not the women's faces, thus depersonalising them further.

Message withdrawn

My 18 yo neice has just been offered a job as a pole dancer and as you can imagine, my sister is not too impressed. She went around asking for bar/waitressing work and in 2 of the many pubs/clubs she went around she got offered pole dancing work instead .

She said no btw. I think its awful how men take advantage of such young girls (the club owners, & they were men). She is a student but needs the extra cash.

Motherfunk exactly how does this power of being sexy manifest itself? The only thing I can think of is that men a woman fancies might fancy them back which is an ego boost, but only really matters if she's single. Apart from that it isn't power at all as far as I can see it.

It's the audience that the woman who is putting on a show for who have the power, she is giving them the power to judge her as to whether she is acceptable or not.

Power in the real world is the ability to make things go your way. How does a woman being regarded as "sexy" by men mean that things will go her way?

Being empowered by being "sexy" is a pretty male agenda. So you get a lot of male approval. Er, there are other ways of boosting your self-esteem. Maybe try some and see what empowerment really feels like!!

Message withdrawn

I think it is a false model of empowerment, to be judged on your looks. There are a lot of people and companies that have a huge investment in you thinking that what you look like is one of the most important things about you. It isn't really you know.

What do you fo MF? Are you a musician?

"And that is not empowering why?"

In what ways is it empowering? You still haven't explained what you mean by the term.

What power does a woman gain by appearing naked in Nuts magazine for example? Once again I think it is the men who really hold the cards in that situation.

Has anybody else noticed how it is actually things which are capitulating to a male agenda that are described as "empowering" for women e.g. getting naked in men's magazines, wearing high heels or lipstick, pole-dancing and stripping etc. Things that bring real power in the real world e.g. running for political office, leaving an abusive partner, amassing wealth, gaining an education or learning a skill are almost never called empowering although they give women a lot more control over their lives than being pretty and sexy for a male audience ever will.

MF, you get judged for your looks all the time walking down the street and that's empowering - well, once you've passed a certain age, you won't, you will be invisible. It is a well-known concept, the invisibility of the older woman. So where is the empowerment that comes from being judged on your looks, when no-one is judging you because you blend into the background and are less noticable than a nice car?

My point is that the dangers of getting your empowerment from male approval of your looks, is a very short-term empowerment strategy. It works in a world where women all die around the age of 40 and have very easy lives. In a world where we can expect to live until 80, I think we should be looking elsewhere for our self-esteem and empowerment, than just our physical attributes.

excellent post littlesleigh

I think a large part of women feeling 'empowered' by the 'power' they can have over men with the way they look/dress/act etc is that it makes men look stupid.

A man fawning over a pair of breasts or long legs is IMO pathetic, you wouldn't see half as many women going ga ga over a guy with his top off, we might say 'ooh, nice chest' but we'd get over it pretty bloody quickly!

Though it doesn't mean that we should have to choose to go down that route to make them listen to us, it is understandable why a woman in a good position will dress well, in a sharp suit, but with a skirt and heels, to use both her brain and her womanly figure to her advantage. IMO, that is just making the most of it.

We, as women, know that if we are dressed well and make an effort to look the part a man is more likely to give us the time of day, hopefully many of us then have the brains to back up the point that we deserve to be listened to.

The sending of pictures into tacky mags like nuts, is not in the same category though.

Message withdrawn

This a really interesting debate...and MotherFunk, I'm dying to know what you do!