Scientists create a human/monkey hybrid embryo.

[MercyBooth]

inews.co.uk/news/science/scientists-generate-a-human-monkey-hybrid-embryo-for-the-first-time-958581?ito=social_ifb_theipaper&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0orOqC_LXzpUpbayvlmowMrVUMf90M2OrZzqlmSJoNN6_NGtDujUbu0N4#Echobox=1618517522

Ugh i feel sick.

A 19 day old embryo is hardly a big deal.

@MercyBooth shouldn't this be moved over to Chat?
I can only think you put this in the Coronavirus board as either a mistake, or hoping that by associating it with coronavirus, as some kind of anti-science fear-mongering?
Which is it?

In fact, it sounds like it is illegal in most countries as it is said in the article that research took place in China to avoid the ethical issues

Here’s your link to COVID.

It’s not widely reported, but they were studying gain-of-function (GOF) research in coronaviruses at the Wuhan lab.

They were funded in this research by US groups like the NIH. They funded the Wuhan lab because GOF research had been paused in the US in 2014 because of concerns it was too dangerous.

www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/white-house-to-cut-funding-for-risky-biological-study.amp.html

Then there were warnings in 2018 that the Wuhan lab was not secure:

www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2021/03/08/josh-rogin-chaos-under-heaven-wuhan-lab-book-excerpt-474322

Note that the COVID GOF studied by the Chinese was to use mice with human lung cells:

A little-noticed study was released in early July 2020 by a group of Chinese researchers in Beijing, including several affiliated with the Academy of Military Medical Science. These scientists said they had created a new model for studying SARS-CoV-2 by creating mice with human-like lung characteristics by using the CRISPR gene-editing technology to give the mice lung cells with the human ACE2 receptor — the cell receptor that allowed coronaviruses to so easily infect human lungs

So in my view, both Chinese and American groups have an interest in obscuring the origins of this virus.

UsedUpUsername There is still absolutely no link between the study in the OP and COVID. To suggest so is spreading false rumour.

I can only think you put this in the Coronavirus board as either a mistake, or hoping that by associating it with coronavirus, as some kind of anti-science fear-mongering?
Which is it?

A quick look at OP’s long-running agenda makes it pretty clear which it is. I don’t think they are going to admit though.

@TheClaws

UsedUpUsername There is still absolutely no link between the study in the OP and COVID. To suggest so is spreading false rumour.

The link is that the research linked by the OP was unethical in most countries, but not in China.

Likewise, gain-of-function research (which increases viral transmission) was banned in the US for a few years due to concerns it was dangerous, so they funded this GOF research of SARS/MERS in the Wuhan lab instead.

Seems a pretty clear link to me

@Losttheequipment sure, but I thought I ought to check, it's only polite.

@TheClaws

UsedUpUsername There is still absolutely no link between the study in the OP and COVID. To suggest so is spreading false rumour.

Also, since we are talking about using human hybrids here, it’s worth mentioning that the Wuhan lab worked with scientists that would later publish research into SARS 2 (the COVID strain in other words) by using mice with human ACE2 receptors, which is funnily enough, where the virus attaches itself when infected by COVID.

UsedUpUsername

There is no link to coronavirus in this research.
You made this utter nonsense up.

It is an outright lie.

There is nothing illegal about this and it is conducted by a world-leading highly reputable Institute in the US.

These cells were used to study human development and destroyed at 17 days.

They can’t survive past 20 days, even if you don’t put human cells in them.

More from an excellent scientific and medical magazine in US

www.statnews.com/2021/04/15/international-team-creates-first-chimeric-human-monkey-embryos/

[quote everythingthelighttouches]UsedUpUsername

There is no link to coronavirus in this research.
You made this utter nonsense up.

It is an outright lie.

There is nothing illegal about this and it is conducted by a world-leading highly reputable Institute in the US.

These cells were used to study human development and destroyed at 17 days.

They can’t survive past 20 days, even if you don’t put human cells in them.

More from an excellent scientific and medical magazine in US

www.statnews.com/2021/04/15/international-team-creates-first-chimeric-human-monkey-embryos/[/quote]
Stop twisting what I’m saying.

I’m saying there’s a link to allowing unethical research in China.

This research into hybrid embryos and THE SEPARATE body of research into SARS 2.

You are conflating them for some reason.

Another attempt in scaremongering with certain objectives?

Experiments such as this one cannot be funded with federal research dollars, though they break no U.S. laws. The work was conducted in China, not because it was illegal in the United States, the researchers said, but because the monkey embryos, which are difficult to procure and expensive, were available there. The experiment used a total of 150 embryos, which were obtained without harming the monkeys, “just like in the IVF procedure,” Tan said

Just like with the GOF research 😓 it wasn’t banned but you couldn’t get funding for it for a few years because of concerns it was dangerous (or here, because it might be unethical). So they did the research in China instead.

I’m wondering why they couldn’t get funding to do this research in the US. Seems like quite the thing to gloss over.

No one bats an eyelid about other species hybrids. I hate the way humans have elevated themselves above other species for special consideration in absolutely everything.

You are conflating them for some reason.

I think it is you that is conflating things, and for a very obvious reason. You see "unethical", "China" and "biomedical research" and start making dubious connections to "Wuhan" and "COVID" and so on. If you look hard enough, you'll find that researcher X worked on X paper five years ago, and you'll start to think your hypothesis is confirmed - but it isn't. Not by a long shot. This is how conspiracy theories start.

@TheClaws

You are conflating them for some reason.

I think it is you that is conflating things, and for a very obvious reason. You see "unethical", "China" and "biomedical research" and start making dubious connections to "Wuhan" and "COVID" and so on. If you look hard enough, you'll find that researcher X worked on X paper five years ago, and you'll start to think your hypothesis is confirmed - but it isn't. Not by a long shot. This is how conspiracy theories start.

I think it’s very simple.

If you can’t get funding for your research in your home country, there’s probably a good reason for it.

UsedUpUsername

More lies and no link!

Why are you talking about Wuhan labs?? They were not involved in this?

It is not unethical in most countries. What does that even mean??
It has been tried before by several groups, including INSERM ( France).

U.K. scientists from the Crick and Oxford have commented that there is no ethical concern with this current research but tHat because this group has finally succeeded in this technological advance, it opens up discussion about possible future research

You are correct the the lab work with Monkey cells was conducted in China.

At the State Key Laboratory of Biomedical Primate Research. Nowhere near Wuhan.

With close collaboration from world-famous Salk Institute (US) and direction from the ethics board at Stanford (US).

It was published in the absolute gold-standard, leading journal Cell.

None of these groups, Universities, publications or commentators would have their names attached to this if it was unethical.

You can be damn sure they’d be shouting loudest if it hadn’t been conducted to the best standards and with the utmost care to ethical concerns!!!!

Here’s a link to the paper

www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0092-8674%2821%2900305-6

UsedUpUsername

If you can’t get funding for your research in your home country, there’s probably a good reason for it.

Do you even know how research funding works, let alone everything else associated with research administration?

Usedupusername

You literally just said

“Here’s your link to COVID”

How the hell is me calling you out on that and saying there is no link to Coronavirus “twisting your words” ????

It is extremely unfortunate that the OP accidentally (assuming good faith) dropped this research onto the coronavirus topic.

This kind of reaction from someone who is trying to read something into it that simply isn’t there and with their own agenda, is an entirely predictable consequence.

@everythingthelighttouches

Usedupusername

You literally just said

“Here’s your link to COVID”

How the hell is me calling you out on that and saying there is no link to Coronavirus “twisting your words” ????

It is extremely unfortunate that the OP accidentally (assuming good faith) dropped this research onto the coronavirus topic.

This kind of reaction from someone who is trying to read something into it that simply isn’t there and with their own agenda, is an entirely predictable consequence.

The link is that research that could not legally be funded by the US federal government was performed in China instead.

Surely the bottom line of this is that there is plenty going on in labs all over the world, variously funded by governments and private enterprise, and we have no idea about it until there is an apparent "breakthrough"?

And I do think it is relevant to Covid because the origins are still unclear and it is a fact that the Wuhan lab was involved with GOF research in sodding bats? Yes, there are plenty of opinions out there, but the fact is the WHO has been wilfully obstructed in their efforts to investigate by the CCCP and no firm conclusion can be drawn.

So I really don't think it's scaremongering to draw attention to something like this. Science does not exist in a clinical vacuum, research is carried out with an endgame, and the morals and ethics aspect cannot be divorced from it.

We live in very strange and interesting times, things are moving on apace and keeping up is hard, especially with the proliferation of misinformation, agendas etc. It would be extremely naive to think that 100% of scientific research is utterly benign.

Ahhhh, research labs in China - a country highly regarded for animal welfare.

And yes, I do know primate research goes on in pretty much every country. But come on...

I agree with everything you say @MistressoftheDarkSide

And I'm sick of people being told to stfu on MN and labelled scaremongers.

Many people have thought 'what if covid was fatal once you caught it'. They're intelligent enough to ask these questions themselves without being brainwashed by 'conspiracy theorists'.

We will never know the truth but IF covid came out of a lab then the general public have the right to say stop fucking about with nature, you're going to wipe us all out.

The link is that research that could not legally be funded by the US federal government was performed in China instead.

Thank you for clarifying this incredibly tenuous link with Wuhan.

For those who may wonder why this wasn’t done in US, embryo research was massively frustrated by Trump laws. Most other countries do this research.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/antiabortion-ethicists-and-scientists-dominate-trump-s-fetal-tissue-review-board

Why are you talking about Wuhan labs?? They were not involved in this?

I’m talking about the Wuhan labs in context of doing research that was not allowed to be funded in the US. Nowhere do I say this human hybrid research was done in Wuhan. Please post proof if I did.

It is not unethical in most countries. What does that even mean?

You couldn’t get federal US funding for this project. Why? Instead they chose to simply say it wasn’t illegal.

With close collaboration from world-famous Salk Institute (US) and direction from the ethics board at Stanford (US)

The Wuhan lab collaborated with and had funding from the NIH to research bat coronaviruses, specifically doing GOF research that couldn’t be funded in the US.

It was published in the absolute gold-standard, leading journal Cell

So what?

Not everyone thought gain-of-function research was dangerous or unethical either. Many were against the funding ban by the Obama admin. Science doesn’t speak with a unified voice after all. I linked to a 2014 NYT article earlier with both voices for and against this research funding ban.

Look, I have no idea if this research will lead to a dark place. But I’m pointing out that doing research in China which is essentially (if not legally) banned in the US, for instance, is probably not a path we want to go down yet again.

I think that’s a good discussion to have.

"We will never know the truth but IF covid came out of a lab then the general public have the right to say stop fucking about with nature, you're going to wipe us all out."

There's good educational video for children for this topic. It's not just scientist that are fucking about with nature. It's inevitable we encounter unknown viruses because of the way we live. As said in the video, virus isn't in our habitat, we are in their habitat.