Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

Actually foreign criminals suspected of terrorism are deported.

It's not a smooth operation and the UK would like to deport more but is hampered by administrative issues.

If you object to them not being deported, why shouldn't Syria deport Shamima and Bangladesh refuse her citizenship?

What on earth has the toppling of statues of slave traders and people who held abhorrent beliefs about race got to do with this case?

This is a technical issue about nationality and the law - you're exposing a nasty side of your character by bringing the recent race protests into this.

She wasn't deported, she chose to leave the UK join a foreign state and wage war against this country. Her choice.

She was 15 when she left, had she realised her mistake and begged to come home then it would be different. But she stayed there as an adult, her choice.

She wasn't groomed, she admitted herself she watched some videos online of people being beheaded and burnt alive and decided she 'wanted some of that'.

She doesn't have to return to the UK to take part in a court case, she could appear via video link.

The difference with Harold Shipman though is that he committed his crimes in the UK and therefore should be tried and sentenced in the UK.

SB committed her crimes in Syria and should therefore be tried in Syria, and if that means capital punishment then so be it. I’m not a fan of the death penalty per se, but it exists in many countries, and reality is that if you don’t want to be put to death in a foreign country then you shouldn’t commit crimes there which carry the death penalty. It ain’t that hard.

Doesn’t matter whether the James Bulger case was worse. They were ten year old children. Primary aged children, who were tried as adults. But no, people believed that the key should have been thrown away, and now that one of them is an adult and has committed crimes the fact that he was a child who committed an awful crime suddenly doesn’t count any more.

People are quick to point out that ten year olds know right from wrong. But at fifteen you definitely do.

I think the amount of defence of her is possibly because she is a woman.

And I don’t believe she ever had any children.

Running, your phrasing made it quite clear what your views are but do try to pull the wool over people eyes if you think it'll work.

Illegal immigrants in the UK choose to come here too - we want them sent back.

I'm not sure whether Syria wants her gone?

Having a Muslim husband and mixed race children means a person isn't a racist - right.

I bet some of your best friends are BAME too.

Why do people think that having a BF from different country is a 'get out of jail free' card for any accusations of racism. ...for the rest of their lives....

SB committed her crimes in Syria and should therefore be tried in Syria, and if that means capital punishment then so be it. I’m not a fan of the death penalty per se, but it exists in many countries, and reality is that if you don’t want to be put to death in a foreign country then you shouldn’t commit crimes there which carry the death penalty. It ain’t that hard.

She is IN Syria is she not? How do you propose to force another sovereign nation to try and sentence her? Syria is pretty much a failed state, I doubt they have the infrastructure to do this.

She has however committed terrorism related offences in the UK.

matter whether the James Bulger case was worse. They were ten year old children. Primary aged children, who were tried as adults. But no, people believed that the key should have been thrown away, and now that one of them is an adult and has committed crimes the fact that he was a child who committed an awful crime suddenly doesn’t count any more.

They didn’t have the key thrown away, they were rehabilitated and let out of prison at a fairly young age. Hence the opportunity to reoffend as an adult. Why would the fact he was a child when he committed one crime impact the fact he committed further different offences as an adult?

She is IN Syria is she not? How do you propose to force another sovereign nation to try and sentence her? Syria is pretty much a failed state, I doubt they have the infrastructure to do this. My point wasn’t so much that she should be tried in Syria, but that if Syria want to try her then we shouldn’t intervene based on the fact that a sentence may mean capital punishment.

In the absence of a Syrian trial then of course she should be tried for the crimes she has committed in the UK.

Syria's been wrecked by a war in which ISIS and the UK alike were among the many groups firing bullets and dropping bombs. The whole country's been treated as a battlefield by its neighbours and the world's great powers. So while SB might be tried there, don't hold your breath.

she chose to leave the UK join a foreign state

isis was never an official country

it's interesting that people often view child offenders as somehow worse than adults.

The boys who killed James Bulger received far more public wrath than most adult offenders.

If Syria decides they don't want her and we refuse to take her back, I hope we are also prevented from returning illegal immigrants and foreign criminals to their country of nationality.

We often don't return people but we might feel differently if the choice was taken away.

Does anyone know if Syria has even said they want to try her or deport her?

My point wasn’t so much that she should be tried in Syria, but that if Syria want to try her then we shouldn’t intervene based on the fact that a sentence may mean capital punishment.

We aren’t. As far as I am aware, Syria is making no attempts to detain her. I don’t think Syria even has an extradition treaty with the UK. Syria is fucked, I doubt Begum is even on the radar as an issue.

Whether we like her or not, she is British. She was born here, grew up here, was educated here. She had never even been to Bangladesh. I really struggle with the notion that she is less British than the rest of us just because one of her parents happened to have dual nationality. I think that's a very dangerous road to go down.

If there is evidence that she has committed terrorist offences, then she should be tried and sentenced according to British law. I do think it should be taken into account that she was still a child when she left the country, and almost certainly a victim of grooming. At the same time, I would expect a 15yo to know the difference between right and wrong, and to take some responsibility for their decisions and actions.

I have very little sympathy for her, but I want her to be treated fairly and justly, and not used for political point scoring. That is how a civilised country operates.

Why would we want to hang on to foreign criminals or illegal immigrants?

I wonder if people realise how many killers and paedophiles are realeased from prison and go on to reoffend?

Why does no one put as much energy into campaigning and protesting against that?

The judges will act in the spirit of the law.

We don't want to hang on to foreign criminals and illegal immigrants - my point was that neither do other countries.