Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

It doesn't what she did. SB is British. This is her home country. She is a British woman.

This is about citizenship and international law. It's not about whether what she did was right or wrong.

Laws need to be applied evenly to everyone for them to have any value.
A country run by mob rule is fine until the mob comes for you.

The tax payer is having to pay £30k for her to have appeal. I wish they would stop legal aid for terrorist and their sympathisers. At the time she was stripped of her British citizenship she had automatic Bangladesh citizenship. The laws in that country stated if a parent holds a passport their children automatically are citizens too. She just chose to stay living in Syria. She is a security risk in UK. If she was allowed back tax payers would have have to spend 100'sk every year for security.

She is only allowed to come back so that she can put forward a proper defence, surely she is entitled to that the same as everyone else.

What terrorism has she committed in the UK, that can be proven in a court?

Joining ISIS (joining a prohibited organization), maybe some others- I am not going to read through all the terrorism offences to see what might apply but I think you can rest assured the government has created offences to cover this type of eventuality. Maybe you would like to send her to Iraq, people get the death penalty for joining Isis there?

I don’t know what evidence they have but clearly enough to strip her of citizenship. She seems to have pretty openly admitted being a member of Isis. Other ISIS brides with less aggravating features for 6 years, Max is 10 I think. Given the strength of public opinion I imagine they would throw everything they can at her and hope for the longest sentence possible.

The government makes the laws, should they have wanted extra offences with longer sentences, they should have enacted them.

She would likely be monitored by the security services for quite some time and possibly subject to a control order.

Part of me says ‘let her rot’ but frankly that would be neglecting our legal obligations.

[quote mummabear1967]@QualityFeet it was her choice to leave so I couldn’t give a toss if she hasn’t enjoyed the experience. Tough luck[/quote]
She was a child.
She was a brainwashed child.
It was not her 'choice' she was coerced.

Some of the posters here show signs of brainwashing themselves.
So much hate for a young woman who actually hasn't attacked or murdered anyone.

You'd do well to read up on brainwashing and grooming.

• @Cosmosgrowinmygarden* says she was old enough at 15 to go out to work. That makes you old enough to remember the Moonies and other mind-bending cults that brainwashed older people than this girl. Jimmy Jones persuaded hundreds of people to follow him to a jungle, murder their children and commit mass suicide.

A few points,
Firstly she was 15 but she was almost 16. Even in the UK people can get married at that age and join the Army.
She was a grown adult whilst she was in Syria. She’s been there for 5 years. So she was possibly involved or atleast played a part in terrorism, including the Manchester bombing.
She only wanted to return here then Isis or IS was defeated by the coalition forces. She was happy to stay there until then.
Surely she should face trial in Syria? People generally face the legal system the country their crime was committed in.

All adults who become terrorists are also brainwashed though? Most of them are pretty vulnerable. The fact remains she holds an ideology that is dangerous and she is a danger to society. We have no choice but to take her back though.

Loads of things are a drain to the state. Families who have children removed costs the state millions, we can’t just sterilize them. There are many things that we don’t want to pay for but have to. It’s just part of living in a fair and civilized society.

But she wasn't 16 she was 15.
The fact that she was 'nearly' 16 is immaterial. In the eyes of the law she was a child.

also people forget that in her interviews she basically says she doesnt regret it and doesnt hate the terrorists but she wants a safer future for her child o_0

She engaged in an act of terrorism. She can come back here but she should go to prison and be tagged for a very very very long time afterwards.

Yes she should go to prison and be tagged for life IMO.
But in the UK. Because she is British.

@Hearwego

A few points, Firstly she was 15 but she was almost 16. Even in the UK people can get married at that age and join the Army. She was a grown adult whilst she was in Syria. She’s been there for 5 years. So she was possibly involved or atleast played a part in terrorism, including the Manchester bombing. She only wanted to return here then Isis or IS was defeated by the coalition forces. She was happy to stay there until then. Surely she should face trial in Syria? People generally face the legal system the country their crime was committed in.

Would you say that of Epstein’s victims? At 15 she was a child. When the grooming began she was quite a young child. At sixteen you remain a child. In Syria she remained a child for three years, so wasn’t an adult for the majority of the time. A huge safeguarding failure. It could have been prevented if The authorities acted on the intelligence they had; they knew she was at risk. Children can only marry at sixteen with parental consent. She was pushed into marriage and motherhood. Then she watched her babies die from malnutrition and overwhelming infection.

Where is the evidential link to the Manchester bombings? I don’t think anyone is saying that she acted wisely or that terrorism is a force for good. I think many people are saying International laws must be upheld and subjects are entitled to be protected by the laws of their nation.

You can join the army at 16 but not without a parents/guardians permission. And unless it's changed you can leave without giving the normal notice because they're not seen as adults

@Supersimkin2

Ever wondered why there aren't more returning Isis fighters?

Begum dodged being executed by Isis, who would have taken her head off on sight. They did a very good job of murdering their own supporters.

Say what you like, Isis has saved the taxpayer a fortune. The UK can afford one gaol cell.

No idea how all three children died. Presumably no investigation? Best not, I bet Begum's not pushing for it.

Begum dodged being executed by Isis, who would have taken her head off on sight.

Why would they do this?

She was almost 16 when she went there.
She’s been an adult since she was 18, she’s now 21. She only wanted to come back when IS we’re defeated.
I’m not saying she was personally involved in the Manchester bombings but her organisation was.
She’s not a 15 years old anymore. And the age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old in the UK.
Surely she should face the legal system of Syria, that’s where she has been with IS?
Then come back afterwards?

@Hearwego

She was almost 16 when she went there. She’s been an adult since she was 18, she’s now 21. She only wanted to come back when IS we’re defeated. I’m not saying she was personally involved in the Manchester bombings but her organisation was. She’s not a 15 years old anymore. And the age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old in the UK. Surely she should face the legal system of Syria, that’s where she has been with IS? Then come back afterwards?

Almost sixteen means fifteen. You wouldn’t say Epstein’s victims were ‘almost old enough’. Sixteen is a child. She’s now 20 not 21. Two years an adult, but without the usual support and guidance a loving parent provides in the transition from childhood to adulthood. In that time she’s been a child bride and child mother. Horrendous abuse.

ISIS isn’t ‘an organisation’ as such. Lots of like minded extremists who share murderous intent, but not joined into a central body. There is no evidence at all that she was in any way involved. There’s no evidence that I know of that her crime was more than travelling to Syria and being supportive of terrorists.

I can’t imagine what seeing beheadings does to a child. There’s enough concern about the impact of a few weeks lockdown on children’s mental health. Imagine the trauma caused by finding yourself married, raped, holding a dead baby whilst people are beheaded around you. I rather suspect she’ll have very severe mental illness for life.

For people saying that she chose to leave the UK and go to Syria, do you think that all immigrants should be allowed to stay in the UK regardless of whether they're here legally or not?

Do you also believe that all foreign criminals should be tried and imprisoned in the UK at taxpayers expense just because they managed to somehow get here?

For people saying that white teens weren't protected in Rotherham, you're right. However, it's a national scandal and something that we're not proud of or condoning.

Being allowed an appeal usually means that the court recognises that there's a legal issue that needs to be tested.

For those of you convinced that she's the responsibility of Bangladesh, you clearly know better than all the judges and lawyers and are in the wrong jobs.

Labour MPs can say what they like - it doesn't make any difference to my opinions about groomers or terrorists.

The law isn't suddenly important, it always has been.

Do you object to foreign criminals being deported from the UK?

Do you also believe that all foreign criminals should be tried and imprisoned in the UK at taxpayers expense just because they managed to somehow get here

If they do their crimes here isn’t that exactly what happens.
If an illegal immigrant murders someone then they would be sent to a British jail to do their time then deported on release.
We don’t deport them and tell their country of origin to imprison them for X number of years for a crime committed on UK soil

So it follows that as a self confessed criminal shouldn’t she be tried in the country where her crimes were committed and be imprisoned there.