Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

Well she's kind of our (as a nations) problem so I think it's the right decision!

Amazing isn’t it that people call her a child to justify why she is allegedly such a victim, when e.g. whenever John Venibles comes up in the press for downloading images the fact he was a child when he committed his original crime is always brushed off with “but he’s an adult now.

She may have been a child when she left the UK, but I don’t buy that she was groomed, she knew what she was doing, but fact is that she’s an adult now and a terrorist sympathiser.

I’d be surprised if there ever were any babies. There’s no way of proving it, and even that baby she was seen with in the camp she showed absolutely no emotion towards and coincidently just a day after she was tracked down that baby also died. .

I understand why she is permitted to come back here but I think people don’t consider what that means. How many people defending her would want her living next door to them? Be happy for her to invite your kids over for play dates if she ever has any of her own?

If she comes back here she will need to be given a new identity because she is too well known. So she will be protected and no-one else around her will even know who she is.

She’s an adult now. She was a terrorist sympathiser as an adult. Therefore she needs to be brought back and tried, and sentenced as an adult

There is an international law rule that says you can’t make someone stateless by taking away their citizenship. Different countries are allowed to set their own rules about who gets it in the first place, but once you’ve got it, your government can’t take it away to make you stateless. It’s that simple.

I’m sure a lot of people currently fuming about Shamima are the sort of person who is normally talking about bringing people to justice. If she had committed a terrible crime in this country before escaping to Syria, how would you feel about bribing her back to her own country to face trial?

As someone who has studied law I assure you there will be a large number of inchoate and other offences associated with terrorism that she will be able to be charged with. They will have long sentences. Until fairly recently you could get sentenced to life imprisonment just for shouting something encouraging at the scene of a murder, or even just being there in some cases. If there is any evidence she researched terrorism or ISIS, or was a member of a proscribed group, or even that she travelled with intent to commit terrorism, I bet those are considered serious crimes.

Finally, as past posters have said, she obviously thought the UK was rubbish enough that joining ISIS was preferable. Has anyone ever been to a British jail? They are mostly utter shitholes. I hate the idea that everyone in the world just wants to come here because they think it will be amazing! Most of the rest of the world quite like where they are.

@ZombieFan

Why are you conflating 'refugees' with terrorists. They are not remotely similar.

I'm not. The law does. It is applied the same to a terrorist, a refugee , a 6 yo boy or someone who committed a serious crime.

That's my issue . The more widespread and accepted this is, the easier it will be for the Home office to do this and relax the rules.

[quote ZombieFan]@ShinyFootball
Mortally bankrupt is the word that springs to mind

Personally I think its morally bankrupt to excuse a person from the consequences of their choices. To want a country they went to war against to pay to look after them in comfort for their whole lives.

I wonder would people have a different opinion if it was their children she helped slaughter?[/quote]
This. I hope she rots in prison!!!

Sorry, there’s a typo in my post, should have been bringing not bribing

Most people seem to focus on her age when she left the UK but presumably this wasn't a sudden decision that came out of nowhere. How long had she been influenced by others before she left? And at what age then do we start to see her as a victim rather than a calculated young woman? 14? 13? 12?

Whatever her state of mind is, I would rather she came back here to be placed under our supervision than left in a place where she will eventually have more children who will either die of neglect, be murdered or become child soldiers and brides.

She was a fifteen year old child when she left.

What did you know about the world — honestly — at that age?

Can you all genuinely say at fifteen that you, (or at least one of your peers, or your children, or your children’s friends) were all operating from a totally adult mindset, with fully-formed, well-developed adult moral compasses? Because that’s utter bollocks.

She was fifteen.

People make terrible errors of judgement.

She should be allowed to return and face due process here.

@AlternativePerspective

Amazing isn’t it that people call her a child to justify why she is allegedly such a victim, when e.g. whenever John Venibles comes up in the press for downloading images the fact he was a child when he committed his original crime is always brushed off with “but he’s an adult now.

She may have been a child when she left the UK, but I don’t buy that she was groomed, she knew what she was doing, but fact is that she’s an adult now and a terrorist sympathiser.

I’d be surprised if there ever were any babies. There’s no way of proving it, and even that baby she was seen with in the camp she showed absolutely no emotion towards and coincidently just a day after she was tracked down that baby also died. .

I understand why she is permitted to come back here but I think people don’t consider what that means. How many people defending her would want her living next door to them? Be happy for her to invite your kids over for play dates if she ever has any of her own?

If she comes back here she will need to be given a new identity because she is too well known. So she will be protected and no-one else around her will even know who she is.

She’s an adult now. She was a terrorist sympathiser as an adult. Therefore she needs to be brought back and tried, and sentenced as an adult

And this!!

That’s what I was thinking about, it’s similar to that paedo John Venibles. What they done shocked the nation and they were younger than 15, but people were so outraged (and rightly so) that their age became irrelevant to the public.

It might be law that age has to come back but I would not share an ounce of sympathy for her, ever. My sympathy will go to all the family’s that have lost loved ones because of the vile group she ‘chose’ to follow and live the dream.

Well I’m pleased the only dreams she’ll be living now are nightmares in the prison cell! I hope she leads a miserable existence until the day she dies!

No. The law is that citizens cannot be made stateless by removing their citizenship. Her age is irrelevant.

@BluePheasant a lot of people seem to think she just woke up one day, decided she hated England, researched ISIS and fully knowing what she was doing and everything it entailed decided to go and joined them on a nice trek around the Globe. The fact that she made into Syria is used as "proof" of how aware,smart and committed she was.She also happily and voluntarily married a much older man after just 10 days. Then they skipped happily into the sunset... oh wait...

@ZombieFan the point I’m making is we cannot deport a British person. I’m asking you where you would deport a British person to. That there is no other country that should deal with her and it is incredibly entitled to declare that she just fucks off to another country. Why should any other country take a British person in?

I find this thread fascinating. No-one appears to have recognised that Begum commited crimes in Syria and therefore the Syrian people have the right to put her on trial.

She gave emotional, practical and technical support as a foreign national, purposely travelling to Syria in order to provide that support, to a foreign militia that had invaded Syrian soil, terrorised and murdered Syrian people, and stole land, resources, and property from Syrian people.

The only claim Britain has is that she is a British citizen (which is not enough to dodge justice in another country unless there is the risk of capital punishment) and has broken British terrorism laws.

I'd be fucking fuming if I were Syrian.

Were any of you outraged that Harold Shipman wasn't sent to Bangladesh? No? Weird...
Both British citizens, both murderers... But one was white and therefore accepted as British.
SB is a british citizen; you cannot strip a person of their citizenship.
There is also an alarming amount of ignorance re. grooming on here. Yes, what she was involved in was abhorrent but grooming, by it's very nature, preys on the vulnerable. Also, people are generally groomed over a long period of time, therefore it is not necessarily a case of '15 is old enough to know better' as the brainwashing very likely began when she was much, much younger.

@Packingsoapandwater does Syria want to try her? I can’t find anything saying so, do you have a link?

@BorderlineBob

Were any of you outraged that Harold Shipman wasn't sent to Bangladesh? No? Weird... Both British citizens, both murderers... But one was white and therefore accepted as British. SB is a british citizen; you cannot strip a person of their citizenship. There is also an alarming amount of ignorance re. grooming on here. Yes, what she was involved in was abhorrent but grooming, by it's very nature, preys on the vulnerable. Also, people are generally groomed over a long period of time, therefore it is not necessarily a case of '15 is old enough to know better' as the brainwashing very likely began when she was much, much younger.

Pretty sure Shipman didn’t have a mother from Bangladesh.....

@2020wasShocking - would you have sent him there if his mother was from there?
Perhaps the Americans could deport trump to Scotland. I’m sure we’d be happy to oblige since his mother is from there.

[quote Queenoftheashes]@2020wasShocking - would you have sent him there if his mother was from there?
Perhaps the Americans could deport trump to Scotland. I’m sure we’d be happy to oblige since his mother is from there.[/quote]
Personally no because he would be our problem and we need to take responsibility. If however a government can challenge someone that commits terrorism, by stripping they’d citizenship, I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

He didn’t join the wired number 1 terrorist organisation.

worlds

I don't think she is anywhere near as bad as people like Myra Hindley or the boys who murdered James Bulger. And they got treated eith every privilege. Not saying she should be treated leniently.

Whatever she did, she is a British citizen and our problem to deal with through the appropriate legal channels. You cannot arbitrarily strip someone of their citizenship and leave them stateless. She is not a Bangladeshi citizen but is of that heritage and may be able to claim citizenship subject to their rules (which they have said she is not eligible for). But even so she is still a British citizen and cannot be left stateless. Criminals are incarcerated and rehabilitated not stripped of their citizenship and put on a boat to figure it out.

she just needs a good slap in the face. I can’t believe she actually justified the Manchester attack.

Actually why am I saying I can’t believe it. Of course I can. It’s her

Yeah losing three children, being groomed, married off and living in war zones ... what she needs is a slap because she has been having fun so far.

The legal principle that you can’t strip citizenship is important. She should be here and our legal process can have a go at untangling grooming victim vs recruiter.

@QualityFeet it was her choice to leave so I couldn’t give a toss if she hasn’t enjoyed the experience. Tough luck

This is a very interesting read into the grooming of Isis brides