Human bloody rights and convicted murderers

[shinyhappytonks]

Makes me so mad

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6955071.stm

and since when does 'a life sentence' mean you get out when you are 26

11 paltry years for taking someones life, and altering an entire family

chocolatepeanut writes for the mail....or at least she would if she could write.

oh god. sorry. personal attack. delete/report me.

but chocolate WTF are you on.

really

my grandfather fought for this country btw.

Sophable And you can bet your grandmothers that the levels of domestic violence, child abuse and prostitution were staggering. Read your Dickens if you want an insight into the exploitation of women and children and general lawlessness on the street.

yawn

i think you'll find that liberals have a less rosy outlook on life than rightwingers generally....they believe that you cannot rely on individual philanthropists to assuage poverty and destitution, but rather you need to create and maintain a welfare state. do you believe in the NHS? bloody liberal idea. (I am conflating liberalism and socialism here, but fuck it).

So CP, why do you think the Victorians had, and the US today has, so much violent crime and murder despite having the dealth penalty, flogging etc?

It is not enough just to slag off liberals as an argument - you should explain why you think violent deterrents will suddenly work here when they don't elsewhere.

Yes, that was a good post by Aloha. I'm a history buff, so this is not new to me.

The Georgians were notoriously unmanagable as a society. But what is astonishing, is that within one generation, the children of the Georgians (the Victorians by then), found their parent's lifestyle deplorable.

I have always maintained that society does not intrinsically change, beyond the toys they get to play with.

Cities in particular were always bad places, but historically, life was cheaper. Infant mortality was hugely high and people did not expect much from life. Post-war, we are a changed society in that respect, and life is generally viewed as more precious.

What we're now seeing is yet another general slip in behaviour. This, as history has shown again and again, need not be a permanent thing. In fact, I have great hopes for the future.

But I still maintain that if you're living in a sink estate in Manchester right now, things may be looking very, very bleak indeed.

"Liberal" is such a crap term anyway.

I'm "liberal" why? - because I think people should be free to do what they like? No I don't. I think people should be allowed to have freedom of religion/non-religion, sexuality, etc. But generally I think there should be more state involvement and control, as sophable says. For example I am pro speed cameras and I think they should be everywhere to stop people speeding, because it's dangerous and harms others. There's nothing very "liberal" about that - in fact it is Daily Mail types who sling about the word "liberal" who generally want to be allowed to speed, and in the US "liberal"0haters are the ones who want to be free to carry guns, etc etc.

"liberal" just means "liberal about stuff I don't agree with - and not liberal about stuff I'm liberal about".

Go back to my original message. There is NO deterrent.

I am not going to get into some 300 thread debate when clearly we are at different ends of the spectrum.

My views may seem extreme,but they are my views.End of.

bleaker than 20 years ago?

i don't agree.

but bleak yes. too bleak to be acceptable. in any way.

And re rehabilitation of prisoners - yes I want that. Not because I want to be soft on them. Because it works better. Isn't that important?

I think it might be more a case of

"I am not going to get into some 300 thread debate because my views are not backed up by the facts and I'd rather not address that."

"The fact that the perpetrator of this crime was from Eastern Europe, may sadly get him off a few years. Total bollox."

I so agree UCM. You should self-critique more often.

Sophable, Kathy

"Every time I try to explain to them that they can't treat our waters as a larder they just pretend they don't understand,"

Loveit.

Thats the kind of attitude that really gets me down about mn.

Of course I can back up my beliefs with facts.Ones that I have first hand experience of and not read from a book (or Daily Mail)

But as I said I am not getting into a debate. I read the thread title and felt like a rant!

If you all want to assume its because I have no brain and am therefore intellectually challenged then so be it.

In the Guardian they would be rightly praised for reducing their food miles

Well, I always refer to myself as a right wing hippy. I don't believe in capital punishment because I'm a pragmatist and it doesn't work.

We're the solution. The ordinary people. When we see anti-social behaviour, we should address it. Some of us will get stabbed for it, but most of them will run away, chastised and in thinking mode ... for once.

We can do our bit, can't we? We can all raise good kids. That's our contribution.

Back to the poor Italian boy [ducks under cover of flying "widely-read newspapers"].

Did anyone hear the headmaster's wife talking on R4 this morning? Did you detect a foreign twang in her voice? Perhaps South African?

I have to admire your bravery Mrs Marvel. Into the valley of death ....

She ain't MrsMarvel for nothing.

Snowleopard

I don't buy papers any more as it's a luxury I can't afford, but really! I hate speeding. It's the one thing in the whole word that makes me see red.

Out of interest, why do you say that? Is it because they've been running a campaign against speed cameras?

But should a basically readable paper be slated just for that?

Pan, we shall see.......

Phew! Change of subject in the nick of time!

No I was going off on one about the whole "liberal" thing in general. Not relating the DM directly to speeding. However i did just google "Daily mail speed cameras" and the majority of their articles do seem to have a "poor motorists" angle.

Was worried for you. Had visions of ravening hordes of feral Daily Mail readers ripping you apart limb from limb. Or hanging you and holding onto your legs.