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Why the Madeleine critics make me mad

336 replies

mumofteens · 18/08/2007 16:30

It makes me mad to still be hearing pompous, judgemental, illogical people criticising the parents of Madeleine about their decision to eat nearby while the children were in the room, and even going so far as to say that social services should be involved.

Here's why. If you have ever been to a Mark Warner resort you will know that there is (or used to be) a baby sitting service available whereby a nanny walks around the floors of the hotel while you dine in the restaurant somewhere else in the hotel. We have used this ourselves. Now, if someone was determined to abduct a child, they could walk into the hotel and take a child from the unlocked room while the nanny is walking on other floors, or is inside a room comforting a crying child. Like most hotels, people come and go without reception turning a hair. Security is usually incredibly lax in hotels and no-one knows who is staying there, who has come in just for a meal or drink and who is a friend of guests. Equally, someone could let themselves in/out of a downstairs window or back entrance if they did not want to walk past reception.

Are the critics suggesting that all the parents who have used such services should have their children taken away by social services?

Ditto with the baby listening services that people use in hotels when reception listen in for crying babies. A person of criminal intent could let themselves into the room, (assuming it had been left unlocked due to a fear of fire) and abduct a child.

You could be asleep in you house and someone could break in and take a baby/child while you were asleep. You could be sitting in the garden while you child was asleep in the house and the same thing could happen. Equally, in my experience, schools and hospitals are often extraordinarily lax about security with people coming and going. One of my daughters had to spend quite a bit of time in hospital and the staff were incredibly laissez-faire about security with hoards of people traipsing in and out of the ward day and night. Someone could easily have taken my child while I nipped off to the loo.

You could watch your child 24 hours a day and something bad could happen - a wierdo could grab them and hurt them etc. Someone was attacked in the park by a wierdo recently - if that had been a child, would the parents have been deemed neligent for allowing their children to walk (with them) in the park?

The point is - if someone is determined to snatch a baby/child, or do something horrible they will find a way to do it.

In terms of risk assessment, the most dangerous place for your child to be is near the road. Yet we all happily put our children in cars every day. Every single week children are killed in cars on the roads, driven by law-abiding, caring parents.

There is also a danger associated with babysitters. We used one for a stage who came highly recommended (she was a nanny at the creche at the prestigious Harbour Club in Chelsea). In fact, she was a criminal with a huge history of stealing. Another friend used one who again came with glowing references but who was in fact a serious drug-addict. I would rather have my children on their own in the house than locked up in a house with a drug addict/criminal.

There is also a danger of putting a child in a creche. One of mine was once badly attacked by another child and could have lost her eye. This would not have happened if she had not been in the creche.

See what I mean? There are risks associated with every single thing we do/don't do. In the context of the big bad world, the possibility of accidents and the reality that not all people looking after children are necessarily very responsible (and that other children can cause accidents), having the children sleeping nearby on their own might have seemed like the lesser of a number of evils.

Having said all that, I do not want to scare people. I do not think that there are bogeymen around every corner. We give our children quite a bit of freedom and do not worry. The main thing I worry about is road accidents as statistically this is by far the most dangerous place to be.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 19/08/2007 23:09

Erm, yeah, good for you.

Gobbledigook · 19/08/2007 23:13

And your point is?

Bubble99 · 19/08/2007 23:15

Laissez-faire and irresponsible (IMO) are not the same thing.

noddyholder · 19/08/2007 23:24

I think I am fairly laissez-faire but am not irresponsible more I try to give my ds opportunity to experience things but within safe parameters.But he is 13!There is a big difference imo.

Pan · 19/08/2007 23:31

hmmm mumofteens..perfect parenting. Awards to be presented shortly..shame it took you so many posts to arrive at that one!!

FWIW, dd's mum and I arrived at a pact about child care pretty soon after dd was born. And leaving her in a hotel room out of our sight with an open door didn't feature in it. It was assumed on both our parts neither of us would be sooo foolish.

they ARE responsible for what happens to their child, unless it is out of their reasonable grasp. i.e. accident. This wasn't out of their grasp.

I don't judge them. Just get a bit annoyed at the McCann love-machine that has developed.

But, yes. Good for you.

3andnomore · 19/08/2007 23:45

mot...lets not forget soemthing did happen to madeleine...and whatever has, well...obvioulsy has caused some trauma...how is that reacting paranoid or whatever...
believe I am generally quite a laid back person with childrearing, I really am...but under no circumstances would I ever advocate or believe t's right to leave children of that agegroup alone in an apparetment away from hom, pool near buy, etc...etc...abduction does not even enter that oquasion...
honestly, if it was a regualr person or chavvie one or single parent....believe me the press would have been different from the beginning...i.e....couple went out on the piss and leaves Kids alone and one is lost now...or somehting along the lines....I do not care what sort of holiday complex it is, as quite simply it never IS ok....and tbh, if you have that much money and all want to spend time together...between you you can afford to at least take one of your nannies with you, or employ a nanny for that reason....

3andnomore · 19/08/2007 23:47

mot...and you are not judgemental at all then...are you ;)

Pan · 19/08/2007 23:48

3 - good one.

noddyholder · 19/08/2007 23:48

I thought the whole point of paying through the nose for MW was because of its child care/creche facilities so very odd they didn't use them

3andnomore · 19/08/2007 23:55

and there is that nh...I mean, really if that complex was that secure, to lull a parent into that kind of security and not taking the offer of the Babysitter services neither....well, I would expect it to be fort knoxnon plus ultra.....
but it doesn't look like that at all...it looks liek a posh place who promises a lot, and delivers little...but then I suppose it does depend on what one considers a family holiday....
we are about to embark on camping...but believe me, des[ite the fact that es is 11, we would never consider leaving them for hours at the time in the tent, just as we wouldn't at home) to go to teh pub...because quite simply Kids are like erm...unpredicatable....

Pan · 20/08/2007 00:01

Stop it 3! We are on the same book, page, and line.

dd's mum and I live separatly....if either of us did this sort of thing, we would string the other one up. (metaphorically, of course...). This couple are together, on hols, in an 'expensive' resort, with every means by which their children should be safe. And still this happens.

Life-shattering trauma it is. But let's not have a McCann love-fest over it. "It could happen to anyone...." Err.. no.

3andnomore · 20/08/2007 00:09

so true...not denying that of course there is a chance for someone to abduct a child in any situation, but this was not any situation, it was an opportunity, and, I would assmue if it was an abductor, then they knew that aprents were lured into this security and also knew they would leave their Kids alone in this environment...becsue they fel t secure, and possibly because they were paying such a large sum to have a great holiday....

kamikayzed · 20/08/2007 00:12

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pan · 20/08/2007 00:16

Without wishing to go into a big debate about it, they are vastly open to criticism..the comment about "next step is to blame Madeleine" is utter tosh. They had choices, and chose the easy one, at their daughter's, and their cost.

kamikayzed · 20/08/2007 00:19

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kamikayzed · 20/08/2007 00:22

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happygirl2 · 20/08/2007 00:22

If it is acceptable to only check on children every half an hour, then why do any of us use monitors? 30 mins is a long time for a child who has woken from a bad dream/ been coughing till they are sick/ decides to get up to use the toilet to find thier parents are no where to be found? How distressing.
OK, they would not have expected this to happen, but it would be easy for any of the above to take place, to name but a few hazards.
I thought it was law in this country not to leave children alone. There is a pub around the corner from our house. Would I EVER leave the kids at home and go for a drink with DP, checking on them every half an hour? I think not! I would not leave them to pop to the corner shop either, despite it being only a few mins away.
Why do peoples minds get so lax when they are on hols? A place is only as safe as the people allowed to pass thorugh it. Surely for e.g. a family resort would be a peodophiles heaven?
Just my thoughts. Just trying to think of similar situations etc. to compare it to.
Jen :00

3andnomore · 20/08/2007 00:23

kami...how you draw the conclusion of anyone blaming madeleine is beyond me..if anything, it is those that think the mcCanns did something perfectly alright that could think along those lines...not that anyone would you know...but afterall..madelein may ust walkked away there...stuppid girl...erm...no...don't think so...if anything, those judging the mc'Canss actually believe that it was iressponsible of the aprents to leave their children in that situation wher5e they could be taking or wander off, set fire to the place or whatever Kids could get up too if waking up in the night unsupervised and able to ealk out of the surroundings....

3andnomore · 20/08/2007 00:24

please, do point out comments where people say madeleine deserved what she got...as I have not read anything and would be truely disgusted by it....and I don't think anyone is sayiong her parents did deserve what they got neither...no one would whish this on anyone...but this does not stop us disagreeing wiht actions taken if we feel they were neglectful!

Pan · 20/08/2007 00:26

Sorry, kam..I read it as your speculation as to the end-game of such. I do apologise.

Still, the experience of grief, even on this magnitude, doesn't make one bomb-proof. Yes, they MAY be their own worst critics. But the reaction of 'attacking them' is a natural reaction to the concept of them being the 'innocent' victims. When they really are not so.

3andnomore · 20/08/2007 00:28

actually took a double take again...and truely think that those cristising actauly all say that it was iressponsib;e to leve a child of the age of madeleines in control of her own future...so...don't think anyone is sayig it's madeleienesz fault....

3andnomore · 20/08/2007 00:29

ooops..think now I got the pint you tried to make...get easily confused...

kamikayzed · 20/08/2007 00:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

3andnomore · 20/08/2007 00:36

kami think I got the point (erm, not pint) you tried to make...well, in the end I did anywya...

stramash · 20/08/2007 00:37

Enough already. Haven't we been over this enough in the last hundred and whatever days?

Well done to all of you perfect parents. Congratulations.

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