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Why the Madeleine critics make me mad

336 replies

mumofteens · 18/08/2007 16:30

It makes me mad to still be hearing pompous, judgemental, illogical people criticising the parents of Madeleine about their decision to eat nearby while the children were in the room, and even going so far as to say that social services should be involved.

Here's why. If you have ever been to a Mark Warner resort you will know that there is (or used to be) a baby sitting service available whereby a nanny walks around the floors of the hotel while you dine in the restaurant somewhere else in the hotel. We have used this ourselves. Now, if someone was determined to abduct a child, they could walk into the hotel and take a child from the unlocked room while the nanny is walking on other floors, or is inside a room comforting a crying child. Like most hotels, people come and go without reception turning a hair. Security is usually incredibly lax in hotels and no-one knows who is staying there, who has come in just for a meal or drink and who is a friend of guests. Equally, someone could let themselves in/out of a downstairs window or back entrance if they did not want to walk past reception.

Are the critics suggesting that all the parents who have used such services should have their children taken away by social services?

Ditto with the baby listening services that people use in hotels when reception listen in for crying babies. A person of criminal intent could let themselves into the room, (assuming it had been left unlocked due to a fear of fire) and abduct a child.

You could be asleep in you house and someone could break in and take a baby/child while you were asleep. You could be sitting in the garden while you child was asleep in the house and the same thing could happen. Equally, in my experience, schools and hospitals are often extraordinarily lax about security with people coming and going. One of my daughters had to spend quite a bit of time in hospital and the staff were incredibly laissez-faire about security with hoards of people traipsing in and out of the ward day and night. Someone could easily have taken my child while I nipped off to the loo.

You could watch your child 24 hours a day and something bad could happen - a wierdo could grab them and hurt them etc. Someone was attacked in the park by a wierdo recently - if that had been a child, would the parents have been deemed neligent for allowing their children to walk (with them) in the park?

The point is - if someone is determined to snatch a baby/child, or do something horrible they will find a way to do it.

In terms of risk assessment, the most dangerous place for your child to be is near the road. Yet we all happily put our children in cars every day. Every single week children are killed in cars on the roads, driven by law-abiding, caring parents.

There is also a danger associated with babysitters. We used one for a stage who came highly recommended (she was a nanny at the creche at the prestigious Harbour Club in Chelsea). In fact, she was a criminal with a huge history of stealing. Another friend used one who again came with glowing references but who was in fact a serious drug-addict. I would rather have my children on their own in the house than locked up in a house with a drug addict/criminal.

There is also a danger of putting a child in a creche. One of mine was once badly attacked by another child and could have lost her eye. This would not have happened if she had not been in the creche.

See what I mean? There are risks associated with every single thing we do/don't do. In the context of the big bad world, the possibility of accidents and the reality that not all people looking after children are necessarily very responsible (and that other children can cause accidents), having the children sleeping nearby on their own might have seemed like the lesser of a number of evils.

Having said all that, I do not want to scare people. I do not think that there are bogeymen around every corner. We give our children quite a bit of freedom and do not worry. The main thing I worry about is road accidents as statistically this is by far the most dangerous place to be.

OP posts:
scienceteacher · 22/08/2007 22:25

Regardless of the slant of our opinions, expressing them is exactly what the McCanns want. It doesn't matter if we are critical - the key thing is that we are continuing to discuss Madeleine and keep her in the forefront of our minds, should we ever encounter her.

UCM · 22/08/2007 22:34

Mummy Penguin,

I simply HAVE to say this;
'I think it's high time that everyone on this forum stopped discussing MM and the why's and wherefore's and rights and wrongs of her parents actions. Why don't we all just keep our eye on news reports for developments instead.'

You then go on to give YOUR opinion.

So everyone should stop discussing it, but listen to your final word eh?

I don't really comment on this stuff anymore as I find it tedious & boring but I will stick up for anyone who wants to talk about it all day if they would like.

I really wish that posters would stop telling people that they shouldn't discuss something. It is wrong. This is a free for all forum and unless Mumsnet Towers find themselves in a lawsuit, it should remain free.

MummyPenguin · 22/08/2007 22:59

Firstly, UCM, how often have you seen my name on the MM threads? That's right, not often. I very rarely look in on these threads only occasionally if I've not seen any news coverage and think perhaps there might be some info on MN.

Not that I need to explain myself or anything.

I was merely suggesting that people don't go over and over old ground and have endless slanging matches while they're doing so. Yes, it might keep Madeleine at the forefront of our minds, but how much good is it really doing anyone?

I didn't for one moment suggest that everyone should listen to my final word. As if mine - or anyone's - is going to be the final word on these threads.

Yes it is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions and that includes me too.

UCM · 22/08/2007 23:17

Yes but to tell everyone to stop talking about something and then give your opinion on the very matter at hand is a bit....looking for a word here....not right.

UCM · 22/08/2007 23:20

I am not for one moment picking on you MP, I am simply saying that if people want to talk about this or anything else over & over & over & over again, they should be allowed and not be bullied or intimidated until they can't mention something.

It has happened over this very subject several times.

You as a person have the right to decide whether or not to click on the thread. So be it.

wannaBe · 23/08/2007 07:50

reports out today suggest that Madeleine died as a result of an accident, in the apartment. so no abduction, no paedophile ring, no need to emphasise the threat of "stranger danger" to our children, no need to put the words "snatched from her bed" in cinema ads.

so if this turns out to be the case, will leaving small children unsupervised while going out to dinner still be seen as acceptable practice? Many, many people have said on this and other threads that they wouldn't worry about leaving their children as abduction is incredibly rare. And yet while some have pointed out that it's not the risk of abduction but the risk of an accident that they would worry about, this seems to have been brushed away. But if it turns out Madeleine had an accident and died while no-one was there, will this just not emphasise why we shouldn't leave children unattended?

LittleBellatrixLeBoot · 23/08/2007 07:52

wannaBe, "reports out today"?

What reports?

And where exactly is Madeleine's body, if she died from an accident?

The McCann's hid it, did they?

FFS.

MummyPenguin · 23/08/2007 08:20

Bulliying? Intimidation? In many posts that I've read, yes. In my earlier post,
No. I've actually just re-read it again to see if it was in an aggressive or bullying or intimidating tone and, as I knew it to be, it isn't. As I said in my earlier post, it was merely a suggestion on my part that people perhaps just look at the news reports instead. If everyone wants to discuss, re-discuss it and argue at the same time, I don't have a problem with that.

I very rarely make comment on these threads as there's always someone who will mis-interpret or twist your words and jump on you. MN never lets itself down in that respect.

wannaBe · 23/08/2007 08:53

here

and

here

totaleclipse · 23/08/2007 08:56

Just another theory then to add to the collection.

lucyellensmum · 23/08/2007 14:33

my theory is this, and im loathe to post re theories because its all supposition, but my theory is that, the police HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE! If this poor wee sould died accidentally in the apartment, um, wouldnt this have been a very different story, like, there would have been a body?? It seems they have run out of leads because of the wasted hours in the begining. So now they feel the easy way to wrap it up is to have a murder inquiry, as that is final, after all the urgency is gone if the poor wee mite is dead.

As to what happened, im as clueless as the rest of you.

oliveoil · 23/08/2007 14:37

my theory is that you are all loop da farkin loop

noddyholder · 23/08/2007 14:41

I think there is more to this than the public know and it will come to light eventually.There are just too many inconsistencies in the whole story.

lucyellensmum · 23/08/2007 14:43

olive, out of all the theories that have been proposed on here, i think yours holds the most water

aloha · 23/08/2007 14:44

I agree 'haven't got a frickin' clue' is the most likely.

NettoFabulous · 23/08/2007 14:47

Can you get fit, jumping to conclusions?

How does an accident immediately implicate the McCanns?
How would it suddenly re-assure people that 'stranger danger' is not a problem?

If someone gained access to the apartment for some ill-intent, like theft, it is entirely possible that they could have caused a death of someone who woke up, and then disposed of the body in panic.

But I don't want to jump to conclusions.

I hope that the story may have a happy ending, but if it can not, I hope that it may be cleared up as quickly as possible and that this is not another wild goose chase for the poor McCanns to endure.

divastrop · 23/08/2007 14:53

going back to one of last nights posts,i do resent statements like 'why do people have children if they dont want them?' and 'too lazy to use birth control' as though all unplanned children are being neglected as they were 'unwanted'.there are children of 2 and 3 playing in the streets up here,most of whom were 'planned' but their parents' idea of bringing up children is letting them play out in the street with the older kids while they get on with...whatever(often getting pissed if its a tuesday).i have a former friend who went through several IVF attempts to have her daughter,but still ended up being investigated by ss for neglecting her.

OTOH,4 of my children were unplanned,and,while i am in no way perfect,they are not being neglected in any way.they were unplanned but not unwanted.

ps-they are all in bed by 8pm and get up about 6(apart from the older 2 who get up about 9.30)but im sure it would be later if it weren't for seagulls

ok,rant over.as you were

kookaburra · 23/08/2007 15:00

Noddyholder I agree - the whole story will come out when the Mark Warner seasonal staff leave at the end of the summer and can speak freely, if the police have not made any arrests in the meantime.

Hurlyburly · 23/08/2007 15:06

giggling at the statement "4 of my children were unplanned"

it suggests there are lots more than four

probably not funny at all but it is quiet at work and to someone who took years to produce a mere two...

divastrop · 23/08/2007 16:27

lol

no,only 5 altogether,and no.5 was conceived 2 weeks after i had my coil removed in order to get pregnant.

ahem...anyway.as i dont read newspapers atall i am unfamiliar with which ones are reputable and which ones are a work of very poor fiction.have any believable reports been made on this case recently?

Hurlyburly · 23/08/2007 16:29

In fairness to Wannabe those were reputable papers. But all they were spouting was a new hypothesis.

Phraedd · 23/08/2007 17:33

divastrop...the McCanns had IVF to have their children too. Which of course means that they were very much wanted and loved by their parents.

MiuMau · 23/08/2007 18:24

Having had IVF to have one's off spring is no proof of parental love or fitness. I wish the equation was as straightforward as that, but it certainly isn't.
I wish every parent would love their child/children, but many are disconnected emotionally.
To a lot of parents a child is a tool and an object for various forms of self-gratification.

MiuMau · 23/08/2007 18:36

Or, was it sarcasm, Phraedd?

MiuMau · 23/08/2007 19:31

'a troll' - Kathyis6incheshigh
'unkind' 'vindictive'. - Hurlyburly
'cowardly and spiteful posts' - Rhubarb
'a journalist' - lucykate
''weirdo' 'cruel' - aloha

Well, nice to get to know you too, folks!
What gives you the right to hurl verbal abuse at me? Because you happen to do it in 'the name of good'? In the name of good by YOUR definition.

Or are you seriously implying that the McCanns actions that terrible night weren't child endangerment and neglectful? If you are, then we really do have a messed up society.

I'm a cynic, I admit. Unfortunately, I've experienced from very close -too close- that people aren't always what they seem. That parents aren't always loving. That religious individuals aren't always virtuous.

And that bystanders don't always help. And that's truly unkind, cowardly, spiteful, weird and cruel.

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