Alfie Evans 6

[CamomileTeaShotofVodka]

Following on from the last thread. If there's one already please do delete this one.

Remember not to speculate or make negative comments about the family or discussions will be stopped.

Thoughts are with Alfie tonight

Such an important and sensitive topic.

Forgive my ignorance but if someone's kept on life support forever because they're in the care of people who maintain life at all costs, how long can they conceivably live for? And what happens if their parents die while that person is on life support? I have visions of rows of forgotten people being kept alive artificially because someone decided that God would want it.

Sorry, should have said indefinitely not forever.

Morgan's. Ok wrote similar on a previous thread. Also if everyone demands their loved ones be kept on life support indefinitely very soon nobody will be able to be admitted to hospital as all the beds will be taken by people who are effectively dead but being kept alive by artificial means.

Mornings google Jahi McMath

Gnu , there would be many H & S risk assessments preformed prior to the Staff attending. Then they would decide if it was feasible. The staff would go along with the decision. At least IME this is what has happened in my part if the world.

Flyingbird it already happens in Israel
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29132303

In response to those saying these threads have been compassionate towards the family, this may be more the case now but there have been some truly awful comments about Alfie's family and in particular his Father. Thankfully, all of these comments have now been deleted but there were many.

Healthcare in the US is very different to the UK, partly because it's very diverse, depending on what state you are in, who is your insurer, who is the provider and for some who is your employer and what is your religion. It can be incredibly difficult for families, care is often defensive because of the fear of lawsuits, testing is often excessive, prescribing heavily influenced by pharmaceutical companies, treatment dictated by insurance companies and bankruptcy due to medical bills is common. The attitudes to end of life care are very different too. I watched a Louis Theroux documentary focusing on terminally ill patients set in LA a few years ago and found it really quite horrifying as someone who thinks a good death is better than pursuing extreme treatment for very little gain. Informed consent seemed to be an issue, with I recall one patient being led to believe that he had a 50:50 chance if he tried a particular treatment even though the doctor had just told Louis that the chance of recovery was closer to 10%.

When my father was diagnosed with brain cancer his doctors told our family that while surgery, chemotherapy and radiotherapy were possible they would likely mean his last months would be painful, difficult and likely hospital based. Perhaps he might have gained a few weeks, but at what cost? So he came home with support from the local hospice, McMillan nurses, the district nursing team and later on full time carers. His last months were peaceful and full of love even if his final hours were still difficult. The only change I'd like to see is assisted dying legalisation. Plus of course the reversal of cuts that have left the NHS really struggling. Not that that struggle is in any way unique to the UK, most healthcare systems are in trouble as populations age and treatments get ever more expensive.

Blobby10 I am pleased you have mentioned Alfie’s difficult home circumstances and the fact that this young couple do not have a home for him to go home to. Presumably due to the situation in the UK regarding the lack of housing especially social housing. Maybe this is a factor if the grandparents don’t have room or are overcrowded. I understand TE is one of 8 and KE lives with her mum. Maybe this is why AH are reluctant to move Alfie.

...but there have been some truly awful comments about Alfie's family and in particular his Father.

I think the widely circulated video in last night's press of some of the family members causing significant noise/disruption/abuse on the hospital ward might have encouraged some of the "truly awful comments" you correctly refer to. It wouldn't be helpful to link it here, and my comment would probably end up getting deleted if I did. I'm not expressing a view either way, apart from to say it's just an educated guess as to why more negative commentary is popping up.

Regarding HCPs, you might recall the Port Arthur massacre of 1996. The gunman received bad burns prior to his capture.

The nursing staff at the hospital he was sent to refused to treat him so (male) Army nurses were drafted in to do it.

Of course, this is a very different scenario, but if it were me, as a HCP (not a nurse, btw); I'd be pragmatic and consider my position before agreeing to go into that home in a professional capacity in such a highly charged case, with a potentially baying mob outside.

There are heroics, and there are unnecessary risks.

What Ravish said.

Good grief - that BBC article is horrific

Alfie going home is ideal. But there's a lot of things standing in the way.

Risk to staff safety is a biggy. Alfie's home address is on SM, so the mob will know where he's being taken to die. These poor staff are therefore at risk of violence from the mob, violence from the family (especially if social media rumour is to be believed) and more bullshit prosecution.

Risk to Alfie is another. If the family are left unsupervised with Alfie, there's every risk they could abscond with him which would be a breach of the order. There's also questions of how they could ensure good symptomatic relief consistently, whether they'd start invasive measures (eg. the defib from Tesco, the bag valve mask).

It's not the most likely thing, sadly.

MorningsEleven

In Israel it's illegal to turn off life support

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29132303

Posts like this are disgusting, it seems like people there are no lengths that people won't go to to promote their MLM bullshit.

Where is his home?

@nooka I like to think I have some choice and I am much happier within my home. It's only bad pain days I struggle. They are rare at the moment though.

@crunchymint

In the US all black mothers and babies face a shockingly high mortality rate, even those who are well off. That is because of the shocking levels of racism, and nothing to do with poverty.

There was a programme on the radio today about this, you might find it interesting.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswqt4