Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

It may be unconnected but I’m pretty sure the Lloyds’s back cashpoints got covered up earlier

It seems to me the authorities have no idea how they were poisoned which is worrying.

I think you're right, nursy, hence things not adding up. If they're not sure how it was administered, why the Skripals didn't die immediately, why DS Bailey was affected, how long before this particular nerve agent deteriorates, then they're just isolating/bagging up/destroying/cordoning every new item/area which may have any link with anyone known to have had any first or second hand contact with possible sites, human or otherwise, for the contaminant. That's fairly do-able.

If they were then to start looking at how many people may have been involved in cross contamination, with 24 hours passing before any of the above isolation measures were taken, then you'd be considering a large percentage of the population of Salisbury, and further out, which is obviously impossible. So baby wipes and reassurance all round.

I guess they know a good deal more than has been made public .

And I guess the public won't know more until many years have passed .

Poor Salisbury . Poor people affected .

I guess they know a good deal more than has been made public.

The inconsistencies are even less excusable, then.

To quote from a previous post by gluteus:

The basic question is, how can something so deadly, result in 3 people critically ill in hospital, uniforms and a table so contaminated they were burned, ambulances and cars towed away and decontaminated by people in Hazmat suits - but the general passing around and contamination by people living in Salisbury isn't an issue

And I guess the public won't know more until many years have passed.

If we find out in years to come that there was indeed contamination among the wider public in my city, and that appropriate steps were not taken, I swear I will make it my mission to get someone held accountable. But of course, increases in cancer rates or neurological issues locally aren't going to be highlighted, are they, so how will we ever know?

Cambridge Analytica has of course had contact with Russian organisations,

They seemed to have contact with many global organisations, not just Russian.

However, wasn't it most interesting that the CA executive stated that they worked with former MI5 and MI6 intelligence officers who could secure secret and damaging information?

Why the omission, PerkingFaintly?

I want to see a timeline, there is so much iffy info out there, it's all chinese whispers

ATM they are trying to fob us all off with baby wipes and everything is FIIII-iiine, honestly no need to worry! It makes no never mind to you, so let's carry on pretending.

I also do not buy the "important brains are working hard and we need to trust in them" lines...look at the questions being asked in most homes over the breakfast table ...even on here, and no doubt many other forums across the world....and afaik not a single decent answer has been given, this is very much Operation Sweep It Under The Carpet and Pray To God no one else dies

A simple timeline of facts would settle quite a lot of the unease and questions that are floating about.

I know I'd be furious and probably quite scared to be living in Salisbury right now.

You're right donkey about the inconsistencies being inexcusable .

There's no info coming out at all now ,I feel sure there will be details from DS Bailey available now that could be shared .

A news black out .I suppose the thinking is that without the oxygen of publicity the whole thing will die down .

As you say MsHome - if I were a Salisbury resident I would be v unhappy .

What do the local councillors and MP say ?

Donkey will you be keeping a record ? Quotes from broadcasts ,that sort of thing ?

However, wasn't it most interesting that the CA executive stated that they worked with former MI5 and MI6 intelligence officers who could secure secret and damaging information?

Counterpoint. I’m wondering this too.
Donkey oil. Seen a few things now over my time like Miners strike where what people were talking about at the time with Gov/ press being dismissive them comes out decades later

So. To put it into words my conspiracy theory. Is it possible that C Analytica client was Vote Leave or suchlike assisted by Russian money. Wasn’t money channelled through Ireland to Vote Leave by Aaron Banks ( the broke millionaire) in the way Nix( CA CEO) described they used outside agencies to facilitate payments? Skripal and Yulia working for them and liasing with Russia.

Heh, no Cambridge Analytica hiring ex-security service people was a long way from the most interesting thing in a series of very, very interesting things coming out about the company.

Even Russia funding some of Aleksandr Kogan's work, and his position at a Russian university, weren't the most interesting things, I'd say.

For me, one of the more interesting things was Mark Turnbull of Cambridge Analytica describing how disinformation is disseminated.

Exposed: Undercover secrets of Trump’s data firm
www.channel4.com/news/exposed-undercover-secrets-of-donald-trump-data-firm-cambridge-analytica
Separately, Mr Turnbull described how the company could create proxy organisations to discreetly feed negative material about opposition candidates on to the Internet and social media.

He said: “Sometimes you can use proxy organisations who are already there. You feed them. They are civil society organisations.. Charities or activist groups, and we use them – feed them the material and they do the work…

“We just put information into the bloodstream to the internet and then watch it grow, give it a little push every now and again over time to watch it take shape. And so this stuff infiltrates the online community and expands but with no branding – so it’s unattributable, untrackable.”

BTW, counterpoint, I notice you're still dodging giving your opinion.

Do you feel Putin would actually be discredited if he were found to have in any way permitted the attempted murder of Skripal?

Would proof he was an attempted murderer discredit him with you, for example?

(Mea culpa: yesterday posting from memory, I attributed the comment about putting info "into the bloodstream" to Nix. The above link shows it was actually Turnbull. Anyway, the series can be viewed here, for those interested in these things: www.channel4.com/news/data-democracy-and-dirty-tricks-cambridge-analytica-uncovered-investigation-expose)

*BTW, counterpoint, I notice you're still dodging giving your opinion.

Do you feel Putin would actually be discredited if he were found to have in any way permitted the attempted murder of Skripal?

Would proof he was an attempted murderer discredit him with you, for example?*

It's my humble opinion I've been giving all along to things people state as facts.

But as for your fantasy scenarios, what's the point? They are not important to me. I don't believe Putin has directed this fiasco (as evident from my opinions so far) so your requests (that you keep rephrasing/paraphrasing/changing) are diversionary straw men.

And, btw, PerkingFaintly, you've directly dodged a lot of counterattacks and questions to your arguments, and not just from me ... Now you're flooding the Skripal thread with stuff to do with Cambridge Analytica. I could ask you why, but I think an intelligent guess might be more accurate.

My worry is that the UK is isolating itself more and more because of the agenda of this Tory government which seeks to ally itself with the wrong side (e.g. Saudis, Turkey) and destroy our relationships with those that could benefit our country, long term.

The EU is leaving us behind, ignoring our anti-Putin ravings.

From today's Guardian:

~ The message, which the commission president [Juncker] made public in a tweet, added: “I have always argued that positive relations between the European Union and the Russian Federation are crucial to the security of our continent. Our common objective should be to re-establish a cooperative pan-European security order.

“I hope that you will use your fourth term in office to pursue this goal. I will always be a partner in this endeavour." ~

But counterpoint, your main (sole?) argument is that the attempted murder of the Skripals, by a method that points to Russia, is anti-Putin propaganda, and is designed to discredit Putin. We can read you on the thread.

If you believe that Putin being found to be a murderer would not, in fact, discredit him, then your whole argument falls through.

If, on the other hand, you believe that Putin being found to be a murderer would discredit him – at the very least, would discredit him to you – why would you be concerned about saying so?

Nice try, counterpoint. Take it up with edmcgrew for being such a rubbish troll.

(Sorry if any non-troll posters felt that info was a diversion BTW. Just, seeing someone playing out on MN exactly the technique I'd just seen described on TV, it seemed worth mentioning.)

Who has been murdered? Has there been a trial that left no shadow of a doubt?
Your fantasy rantings make you sound more like Boris.
As I said, there's enough speculation going on here and your main concern seems to be to continue the association with Putin which will sadly prevent us from finding out the truth.

But Perkin, you were the first to derail the thread with Cambridge Analytica stuff. The poster you accused tried to introduce a new angle but still focusing on the Skripal case.

People are beginning to think more critically and not simply swallowing what the Tory arms dealers are selling us.

I have been away from Salisbury for a few days for a family funeral and have been asked how I am by all my relatives in the north...I was in the car park and bought a ticket at the machine that has now been cordoned off on the Tuesday following the first reports...I am now a bit worried that I might have come in to contact with the nerve agent but I have no way of knowing...it's all very odd

lametta, I'll certainly be bookmarking little nuggets such as:

England's chief medical officer, Dame Sally Davies, estimated that around 500 people could have been affected in the time window.

That's 500 people plus family, friends, pets, money? Without knowing the longevity of the agent, and how well it survives being transferred from person/object to person/object, it's surely impossible to make such an estimate.

They seem to be treating it like it's a cold virus being passed around. It's a bloody nerve agent, for God's sake. And yes, nursy, there's a long and well documented trail of cover-ups which doesn't allay any fears people might have.

And this makes interesting reading:www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/salisbury-mp-convinced-residents-are-safe-from-nerve-agent

I suppose the thinking is that without the oxygen of publicity the whole thing will die down .

That's exactly what's happening, and now we've been given the 'it's going to take months of investigation' line, to close down any questions.

And as I posted earlier Patriarchy saying the time delay didn’t fit any known nerve agent

We're dealing with the first ever use of this variant.

If Novichok is made of two precursors, do they have to be mixed prior to using? Could they be mixed on the victim?

Damned good question

Good posts Donkey and meditrina .

He has underlying health issues and has developed other symptoms during the week including vomiting, terrible headaches and muscle seizures. He said he phoned PHE around 11am on Monday morning for advice and they called him back at 4pm and advised him to dial 111.

surely this can't be accurate ? 5 hour delay to ring him back ? Advised to ring 111??
And how is he ? What happened next ?

I'm surprised that I've not seen interviews from pp like the owners of the cars removed from Sainsbury car park ,waiters at Zizzi ,etc .

And ,of course I don't know details ,but isn't it a bit excessive/unusual ,to jail someone for drunkly breaching a cordon and ranting ?

Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, who was a commander of the now disbanded Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment, claimed the UK was paying the price of the lack of action after chemical attacks in Syria and Iran.

“If [the Russian president Vladimir] Putin is responsible, he probably doesn’t think anything’s going to happen because we haven’t done anything about chemical weapon use in Syria and Iran. We must reimpose the taboo, the red line, on the issue of chemical weapons, otherwise every dictator, despot, rogue state and terrorist is going to use this stuff.”

makes sense to me .