Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

Ah, counterpoint, I think you missed me asking for your opinion.

Do you feel that Putin would be "discredited" by the discovery that he had in anyway influenced or permitted (even negligently) the attempted murder of Skripal?

And do you feel he was "discredited" by the murder of Litvinenko?

I wonder how the Skripals are and if they will recover or if they are just being kept on life support .And if there are any relatives visiting them .

yes lametta. Poor, poor people. I suspect they will die, but perhaps they are being kept alive in case someone finds some sort of antidote so they may be able to speak. So sorry for them.

The tow truck was in my town. It's very weird to see my little town on national news and on Mumsnet.

“That reminds me; we haven't had any images of the victims lying in hospital as we did with Litvinenko.”

Litvinenko wanted to be photographed. He gave statements to the press, write a statement.
It would be extremely unethical to take and publish pics of people who are probably not able to give consent. I don’t think the NHS / hospital staff would allow it.

If they ate pizza with their hands, then that would account for them being taken ill simultaneously after leaving Zizzis.

I've never seen anyone eating pizza with their hands in Zizzi's. It's a knife and fork kinda place.

Does anyone know if restaurants have their own internal CCTV, btw?

"It seems to me the authorities have no idea how they were poisoned which is worrying"

I think it's quite possible the authorities have a reasonable idea, but are saying nothing (especially just ahead of OPCW endorsement of findings). So the press are filling in the gap,with any half-assed comment made by someone 'close to the investigation'

*Do you feel that Putin would be "discredited" by the discovery that he had in anyway influenced or permitted (even negligently) the attempted murder of Skripal?

And do you feel he was "discredited" by the murder of Litvinenko?*

It seems, imho, that our government do think it might be the case and, therefore, (if not merely to reduce Putin's popularity) a way to garner support for forcing sanctions against Russia (just when the EU and Russia are getting closer - not good for lone UK), and furthermore, this propaganda task has worked well to achieve one of Britain's other goals of allowing Turkey to invade Afrin and ethnically cleanse Kurds who might have been pro Assad. Multi-factorial.

In relation to him living so close to Porten Down, do you think that he (and possibly others) were deliberately placed there by our government following Litvinenko, to ensure that if it ever happened again, samples could be tested very very quickly.

*So it now turns out the Police Officer who was hospitalised did not actually attend the scene but was the first person to enter Skripal's house, he subsequently became ill and took himself to hospital. Seems to indicate that they were exposed in the home and then became ill an hour or so later.

That time delay doesn't fit the profile of any known Nerve Agent*.

This post from Patriarchy earlier in the thread, she seemed really knowledgable about the chemistry stuff.
So yes there is a lot of speculation in the press Meditrina and also here but I am genuinely fascinated to find out exactly what it is and what the properties are with regard to the health risks in Salisbury.

As i's posted earlier, if it was percutaneous exposure, in sub-lethal dose (assumption, based on them not dying) that would account for time delay between exposure and symptoms, but not for two people of different size, shape (and possibly level of exposure) become incapacitated at near-as-dammit the same time.

Has it now been confirmed that the policeman went to the house? I'd only ever seen the early comment that he had been an early responder to the incident (nfd)

If Novichok is made of two precursors, do they have to be mixed prior to using? Could they be mixed on the victim?

Organophosphate - at home
Sup it up to nerve agent - later

Would be a very useful feature of a chemical weapon.

Has it now been confirmed that the policeman went to the house?

I saw this report on the Sky News website dated 9th March:

Former London police chief Ian Blair has since said that DS Bailey visited Skripal's house, which is now being considered as the potential location where the pair were poisoned.

Mr Blair told BBC radio that DS Bailey "has actually been to the house, whereas there is a doctor who looked after the patients in the open who hasn't been affected at all. There may be some clues floating around in here."

I also saw a report (but can't remember the source) which stated that DS Bailey had been in attendance initially at the bench, but that ID was then found, which led him to go to the house, as it was thought at first that the incident was drugs related.

Real IRA assisted Russians in Salisbury

Secretary of State for Defence Gavin Williamson reported in his Twitter that militants of the Real Irish Republican Army had transferred a component of the 'Novichok' nerve agent to Salisbury with the view to poison the former Russian military intelligence colonel Skripal. cienciamaldita.wordpress.com/2018/03/16/mays-gift-to-putin-or-reviving-conflict-over-northern-ireland/

s14.postimg.org/7cv9gkq3l/site.jpg

A few minutes later the tweet was deleted, which gives reason to believe that the information is sensitive and classified and thus must not be disclosed to the public until Scotland Yard completes its investigation. In case the information about the Real IRA militants' involvement in Skripal's poisoning proves true, the law enforcement have to be prepared for the worst-case scenario as terrorists may have a complete set of chemical agents necessary for creating the chemical weapon. Are the Northern Ireland's police units prepared to provide security for the citizens in such conditions? Let's just hope that they are, otherwise casualties among civilians can run into thousands.

edmcgrew

This gets weirder. Why hasn't the tweet been publicised more? Maybe it has and I just wasn't aware of it? Is it a genuine tweet from Mr. 'go away and shut up' Williamson?

Gosh, edmcgrew, thanks for joining Mumsnet to make a first post claiming the Defence Secretary made but deleted a tweet, so no one can read and check.

Backed up with a wordpress link, too. My goodness, I was all set not to believe you, but now you've linked to a blog I know it must be true.

real IRA assisted Russians in Salisbury

OMG edmcgru
If this is true then we really are in trouble if that Irish border re- instated.

Meditrina

I think it’s been pretty much established that DS Bailey went to the house. It points to his and the Skripals being contaminated at that location as Donkey oil found. However then there are cars and locations which seem hard to link up to that being the only place of contamination. Plus speculation, and I know there’s a rumour mill going, on other methods of contamination like this inhalation via car air con, door handle, car handle, clothes!

If it was percutaneous via some sort of gel at the house to me it seems a very long delay to symptoms. 9.15 to mid afternoon?

BTW, Channel 4's exposé of Cambridge Analytica last night included film of Alexander Nix saying it was important that people couldn't tell where disinformation came from.

He talked of injecting disinformation into the internet, of "getting it into the bloodstream" so that it would spread without people realising it was propaganda or asking awkward questions about who was putting it out.

Cambridge Analytica has of course had contact with Russian organisations, but I'm not suggesting one taught it to the other: I'm sure this technique is common to all propagandists.

The segment was about 40 mins last night. I haven't checked which bits are covered in the 20 min link below, but it's all very informative for anyone interested in the internet disinformation wars.

Revealed: Trump’s election consultants filmed saying they use bribes and sex workers to entrap politicians
www.channel4.com/news/cambridge-analytica-revealed-trumps-election-consultants-filmed-saying-they-use-bribes-and-sex-workers-to-entrap-politicians-investigation

Perkinfaintly
Thanks for the warning. I’ll watch that.

It's a 5-part series called Data, Democracy and Dirty Tricks: #CambridgeAnalyticaUncovered

Part one is here:
Part one: The Whistleblower
www.channel4.com/news/data-democracy-and-dirty-tricks-cambridge-analytica-uncovered-investigation-expose

Last night's was part 2 – and the Information Commissioner's Office are seeking warrants to go in to Cambridge Analytica this morning.

Tonight part 3 will be about CA's boasted-of work in the US election. Channel 4 News at 7 pm.

I think it's all going to be useful watching.

Just reposting this earlier post re Nick Bailey not being a first responder

BoreOfWhabylon Fri 09-Mar-18 14:21:22
Good coverage in Radio 4 World At One today. Includes clarification that the ooliceman was not a first responder, as previously thought, and it's now thought that he was contaminated elsewhere.

and this one ,which I agree with .Substitute "luggage" with source of poisioning ( which I can't spell ! )

meditrina Fri 16-Mar-18 19:45:37
What I don't get in that luggage scenario is how a nerve agent, which the two people may have handled in varying quantities, caused them to fall critically ill at nigh-on-dammit the exact same time, some hours after they had left the house. Especially given the likely differences in dose/absorption/effect between a tall, broad 66 year old man and a slighter, shorter 33 year old woman. Because the dose surely can't have been overkill, as they're not dead.

Lamentta

Yes. As Meditrina said
And as I posted earlier Patriarchy saying the time delay didn’t fit any known nerve agent ( where are you Patriarchy? You seemed to know a fair bit about these things)

I know I’m like a dog with a bone but surely this just doesn’t add up?

nursy - I'm gnawing away as well ,just reread this whole thread !

Hope Patriachy hasn't been silenced by the powers that be .